5 replies to this topic

[Vade]

I hate checking when I'm the preflop raiser I really do.I'm on the button with A10 spades and I raise my usual 5BB Two callersFlop comes out A-10-8 offsuit, and I bet the pot and take it downMy question is, how do I force myself to slowplay top two? I have plenty of horror stories of people hitting bottom pair and trips on the turnIs it safe to check here, intending to raise?I just...hate...slowplaying...anything less then top set or a made hand

[Emptyeye]

I'm far, far from a no-limit expert, but I hardly slowplay. Ever.So many people are obsessed with making the fancy play nowadays, that playing straightforward and actually BETTING when you hit a monster is almost as deceiving IMO. Of course, my aggressive NL style tends to help with this (Bet when you hit the flop, probably bet ANYWAY if you miss), but unless I've hit something huge (Like full house or bigger huge), I'll just bet it and be more than happy to take it down if everyone folds. Is it the most profitable play? Maybe, maybe not. Is it the best play in terms of risk-to-reward ratio? Almost definitely IMO.

[Swift_Psycho]

It actually looks suspicious sometimes if you raise pre-flop and then check when an Ace hits. I think you played it fine. You don't want to give a free card for someone to hit a straight or set on you. Slowplaying is often overrated, especially online against some of the fish out there.

[Abbaddabba]

If there's a flush draw out there and you're being bet into while holding a set, i don't mind just calling when heads up at a short handed table (or checking if im not being bet into). They probably are holding some other good, but marginal hand and are making draws pay, along the lines of top pair if they're betting. They assume that if you're also holding a decent made hand, you'll want to raise to test that he isnt on the flush draw and value betting, so they're fairly certain that you're on a draw. If no draws hit by the river, they will probably check on the assumption that if you did miss your draw, you wont call any bets anyways. At that point, you give them the suspicious "value bet", with a pot sized bet which reeks of a failed draw. It's hard to put someone on a set when they're just calling bets and there's a flush draw out there. Of course, the problem with this is that people often bet into you with a flush draw for fold equity. On the plus side, if the flush does hit, they'll have to be extremely scared of you supposing they didnt have the flush. If they did, then you simply lose less (assuming you gave him large but callable bets). Of course, you get much less when a flush draw does hit (and you potentially lose the pot), but when it doesn't hit, you can usually win quite a bit more than you otherwise would if you bet it strong and scared top pair out of the pot. This is primarily because people will "put" you on the bluff more often than not when betting hard on the river after calling the entire way, and all the draws miss. It goes without say that this doesnt work if you have a tight and honest table image. You can really categorize it in five parts. 1) They have a made hand that you have dominated. 2) They have a made hand that dominates you3) They have nothing and are trying to bluff you out. 4) They have a draw, and it hits (and it beats you). 5) They have a draw and it hits (and the board pairs up giving you the boat which beats them). 6)They have a draw, and it misses. If they have #1, on average you will win more.If they have #2, you're ****ed no matter how you play it. (this is pretty much strictly reserved for over sets.If they have #3, on average you will win more.If they have #4, on average you will lose less. (supposing the alternate to slow playing is making sizable, but callable bets for someone on the flush draw)If they have #5, the change in winnings from this strategy is pretty ambiguous. Either way, you're taking them for a ride on the river.If they have #6, you win less.Only in the fifth situation are you worse off for having slow played a set with a flush draw on the board. Whether or not the loss in value from those circumstances outweighs the gains in the other ones depends on the people you're playing with and your table image.

[Vade]

Interesting analysis AbbaAnd I rarely even slowplay a top set, only if it's like a tourney hand I had the other day with KK and a board of K-8-4Turned out he had the case king

[Erudis]

i'm kind of with D Brunson on this one: i hate check-raising and much prefer just leading out with a bet. if, however, i have the deck crippled (as he calls it) - such as flopping quad aces or something like that - i'll give off some cheap or free cards and let someone catch up a bit. although, even when i flop the absolute unbeatable hand, i still many times lead out (especially if the nuts are obvious) because nobody believes you anyway and they're likely to raise back into you. when that happens you can play possum and watch their futile attempts to power it down on the turn... then you stick em =)