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Would You Call This?


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#1 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:48 PM

I have a tight/agressive image at the table. Villain is donkey on sharkscope and is loose.PokerStars Game #8410248885: Tournament #42864986, $110+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/02/12 - 18:41:25 (ET)Table '42864986 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: GabeTheKid (1295 in chips) Seat 2: DaMaKa (2710 in chips) Seat 5: RokinRT (3070 in chips) Seat 6: jhub3000 (1925 in chips) RokinRT: posts small blind 25jhub3000: posts big blind 50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GabeTheKid [Kc Ks]GabeTheKid: raises 75 to 125DaMaKa: folds RokinRT: calls 100jhub3000: folds *** FLOP *** [3h Ah 7h]RokinRT: checks GabeTheKid: bets 250RokinRT: calls 250*** TURN *** [3h Ah 7h] [9d]RokinRT: bets 950GabeTheKid: ????

#2 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:57 PM

I have a tight/agressive image at the table. Villain is donkey on sharkscope and is loose.PokerStars Game #8410248885: Tournament #42864986, $110+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/02/12 - 18:41:25 (ET)Table '42864986 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: GabeTheKid (1295 in chips) Seat 2: DaMaKa (2710 in chips) Seat 5: RokinRT (3070 in chips) Seat 6: jhub3000 (1925 in chips) RokinRT: posts small blind 25jhub3000: posts big blind 50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GabeTheKid [Kc Ks]GabeTheKid: raises 75 to 125DaMaKa: folds RokinRT: calls 100jhub3000: folds *** FLOP *** [3h Ah 7h]RokinRT: checks GabeTheKid: bets 250RokinRT: calls 250*** TURN *** [3h Ah 7h] [9d]RokinRT: bets 950GabeTheKid: ????

#3 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:02 PM

I have a tight/agressive image at the table. Villain is donkey on sharkscope and is loose.PokerStars Game #8410248885: Tournament #42864986, $110+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/02/12 - 18:41:25 (ET)Table '42864986 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: GabeTheKid (1295 in chips) Seat 2: DaMaKa (2710 in chips) Seat 5: RokinRT (3070 in chips) Seat 6: jhub3000 (1925 in chips) RokinRT: posts small blind 25jhub3000: posts big blind 50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GabeTheKid [Kc Ks]GabeTheKid: raises 75 to 125DaMaKa: folds RokinRT: calls 100jhub3000: folds *** FLOP *** [3h Ah 7h]RokinRT: checks GabeTheKid: bets 250RokinRT: calls 250*** TURN *** [3h Ah 7h] [9d]RokinRT: bets 950GabeTheKid: ????

#4 Socrates

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:07 PM

View PostGABMAD, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 6:02 PM, said:

I have a tight/agressive image at the table. Villain is donkey on sharkscope and is loose.PokerStars Game #8410248885: Tournament #42864986, $110+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/02/12 - 18:41:25 (ET)Table '42864986 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: GabeTheKid (1295 in chips) Seat 2: DaMaKa (2710 in chips) Seat 5: RokinRT (3070 in chips) Seat 6: jhub3000 (1925 in chips) RokinRT: posts small blind 25jhub3000: posts big blind 50*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GabeTheKid [Kc Ks]GabeTheKid: raises 75 to 125DaMaKa: folds RokinRT: calls 100jhub3000: folds *** FLOP *** [3h Ah 7h]RokinRT: checks GabeTheKid: bets 250RokinRT: calls 250*** TURN *** [3h Ah 7h] [9d]RokinRT: bets 950GabeTheKid: ????
1. While you may think you have a TAG image (like everyone else claims) - not everyone will see it that way. I don't like the 2x raise, leaves you guessing as to what the blinds could have and this flop illustrates the point - You can't know where you are here. In this situation I'd probably have to lay it down just because you're lost in the hand and invited way too many marginal hands in with the weak pf raise.

#5 ChrisRichey

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:08 PM

Nope. I don't like the bet on the flop either. Lead for 1/2 size of the pot.

#6 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:10 PM

View PostSocrates, on Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 12:07 AM, said:

1. While you may think you have a TAG image (like everyone else claims) - not everyone will see it that way. I don't like the 2x raise, leaves you guessing as to what the blinds could have and this flop illustrates the point - You can't know where you are here. In this situation I'd probably have to lay it down just because you're lost in the hand and invited way too many marginal hands in with the weak pf raise.
Why does everyone hate the 2.5 x BB raise? I always use it when it's short handed or HU. I love it personally. He wont callme if I raise it by an extra half blind? If he calls the 2.5x BB raise he'd call the 3x BB raise.

#7 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:12 PM

View PostChrisRichey, on Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 12:08 AM, said:

Nope. I don't like the bet on the flop either. Lead for 1/2 size of the pot.
Look at the board. It's really weak if you bet 1/2 pot on a 3 flush board. I would raise it the same way if I had AK with no heart, why become so obvious and readable?

#8 Suited_Up

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

View PostGABMAD, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 6:10 PM, said:

Why does everyone hate the 2.5 x BB raise? I always use it when it's short handed or HU. I love it personally. He wont callme if I raise it by an extra half blind? If he calls the 2.5x BB raise he'd call the 3x BB raise.
So why not just raise the 3x then? Don't you want more money in there when you're way ahead?
-Kurt

#9 goose

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

I'm not calling this at Level III... I might even have checked the flop and c/f'ed the turn... it's a really weak line, I know, but given the pot is <300 and without the Kh in your hand this is a great place for you to go broke thinking he might not have the ace (or an unlikely two pair/set) and hopes he doesn't hit a heart.edit: just noticed it was 6 handed, not 10 sorry.... yeah I bet this flop and c/f the turn.... just not worth it when you still have an M of around 13 which will, especially short handed, let you back into this.
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#10 GABMAD

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

View PostSuited_Up, on Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 12:13 AM, said:

So why not just raise the 3x then? Don't you want more money in there when you're way ahead?
I raise to 2.5x BB when I steal as well.

#11 GWCGWC

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

View PostGABMAD, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 5:10 PM, said:

Why does everyone hate the 2.5 x BB raise? I always use it when it's short handed or HU. I love it personally. He wont callme if I raise it by an extra half blind? If he calls the 2.5x BB raise he'd call the 3x BB raise.
It's short handed. If you're not going to bet enough to get max value preflop then you have to be willing to fold.You're only beating a flush draw here.

#12 mb5322

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:14 PM

I vote for posting it in the proper forum to get the answer your looking for.
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#13 GWCGWC

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:15 PM

View Postmb5322, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 5:14 PM, said:

I vote for posting it in the proper forum to get the answer your looking for.
and convert the hand

#14 ChrisRichey

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:15 PM

View PostGABMAD, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 4:12 PM, said:

Look at the board. It's really weak if you bet 1/2 pot on a 3 flush board. I would raise it the same way if I had AK with no heart, why become so obvious and readable?
Lol, it's not weak. It's smart. You lose less when you're behind, and you're still overcharging him to draw in case he has a naked heart.

#15 copernicus

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:17 PM

BMR (by my read) he either has an A that feels better without a fourth flush card on the board, or he flopped the flush, set or the 9 is his set card. You raised preflop and followed it up with a bet with an A on the board. He has to fear 88+ and Ax here, yet he calls the flop and leads the turn. He's either suicidal or has the goods.
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#16 Socrates

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:17 PM

View PostGABMAD, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 6:10 PM, said:

Why does everyone hate the 2.5 x BB raise? I always use it when it's short handed or HU. I love it personally. He wont callme if I raise it by an extra half blind? If he calls the 2.5x BB raise he'd call the 3x BB raise.
Ok - so would you have rather won the blinds or give up the extra 250 chips? This is along the lines of a tourney I played earlier today. I saw AA and KK get cracked 5 times due to ppl playing the 2x, 2.5x raise. They would get all of their money in dead on the turn and then complain about people making calls out of the blinds with suited gappers or with hands like K8 suited on the button preflop and then getting out flopped and losing all their chips. It's funny how online players seem so willing to increase their risk to ridiculous amounts in order to try and win a big pot.

#17 mikeysong

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:22 PM

i'm foldingI would assume at worst he has a heart draw. But I'd give him credit for ax

#18 Dice_3008

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:25 PM

View PostSocrates, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 4:17 PM, said:

Ok - so would you have rather won the blinds or give up the extra 250 chips? This is along the lines of a tourney I played earlier today. I saw AA and KK get cracked 5 times due to ppl playing the 2x, 2.5x raise. They would get all of their money in dead on the turn and then complain about people making calls out of the blinds with suited gappers or with hands like K8 suited on the button preflop and then getting out flopped and losing all their chips. It's funny how online players seem so willing to increase their risk to ridiculous amounts in order to try and win a big pot.
I have a friend who does exactly what you just said. Opens with a small raise usually followed by a weak flop and turn bet. Then he will bet big on the river when everybody in the hand has his A-A crushed. This is always followed up by a lecture why we shouldn't call with bad hands like 7-8.

#19 Suited_Up

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:33 PM

View PostDice_3008, on Monday, February 12th, 2007, 6:25 PM, said:

I have a friend who does exactly what you just said. Opens with a small raise usually followed by a weak flop and turn bet. Then he will bet big on the river when everybody in the hand has his A-A crushed. This is always followed up by a lecture why we shouldn't call with bad hands like 7-8.
Loooooove me some 78.
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#20 goose

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:34 PM

2-3x BB raise is fine once in a while to mix it up, especially if you've got the guy who'll call pegged as weak/tightish and you can extract a reasonable pot from him if he makes top or middle pair and check/calls it down, and you can get away from a dangerous board or if your opponent showing strength.SS2's quote is used so often but it bears repeating: "aces/kings will win you smaller pots or lose you big ones"I don't have a problem with his raise in this instance if we know the potential callers aren't overly aggressive or tricky.
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