42 replies to this topic

[meservery]

No HH... went down something like this.

Neg-O

First level (10-20), 9 handed.

Folds to Hero in MP with Ac10c

Hero raises to 50. (2400 behind)

SB calls, BB calls.

Pot: 150

Flop:

K, J, x (2 clubs)

SB checks, BB bets 600ish (3500 behind), HERO?

The flop bet is not a typo...

[ChrisRichey]

Seems like an easy fold to me.

[tskillz187]

Fold. Why raise to 50 here? Seems a little small and I'd probably just limp. I like the 2.5xbb raise but moreso when it's deep and blind stealin is imperative. This just seems like building a pot in a semi-bad position. Especially if you aren't very comfortable postflop, and seeing as you are thinking about calling/pushing over this gigantic overbet I'd say you shouldn't be looking to make more post flop decisions than necessary.

[bdc30]

I'd probably fold here, but if you DO call, do it to set up a turn semi-bluff if you don't hit.
You have two shots at 12 CLEAN outs, maybe 15, if the aces are good too, so you're not that far behind anything.

I take in to consideration that it's a $10 tourney and this could be the time to either double up or move on to the next tourney that is starting up. Sure would be nice to go in to the next level this early with a 5k chipstack.

The more I think about it, I could talk myself in to a call...

[copernicus]

any raise is pot committing, push while youve got the equity edge or fold. Id push here. He might even be on a worse draw than you

[Mercury69]

I like the push also. That flop bets reeks of something not right...And you do have a zillion outs (ok, as many as 15)

[gobears]

Very strange overbet by villain - with 12 sure outs and maybe more, I'm pushing here. He could have a weaker flush or a straight draw. That big of an overbet screams weakness to me.

[tskillz187]

This is crazy to me for all of you saying push. Even if you have the 15 outs that you want, you are like a 55-45 favorite here. That's basically our best case scenario. Unless you think hes firing 600 with less than nut flush draws which I think is way in the minority. Anyways if we have a villain willing to lead 4x pot bets into our PF raises, why not wait until we have a monster? Seems like a lot of gamble for no reason, we aren't committed to the pot, it's not a big pot, the blinds are low. Everything points to fold!

[ChrisRichey]

I don't understand the push argument. It is early in the tourney, so we actually have no idea what the overbet by villain means. At best we are in a coinflip if we push and get called, and our A's may not even be outs (set/2p). It's way too early for that kind of play imo.

[meservery]

I posted this hand right after it happened and I was still in the tourney.

So i have more info...

I left out the fact that this was like only the second orbit and had seen the villian bet almost every hand like this.

And was in almost every hand... so if that adds anything into the discussion.

[tskillz187]

I posted this hand right after it happened and I was still in the tourney.

So i have more info...

I left out the fact that this was like only the second orbit and had seen the villian bet almost every hand like this.

And was in almost every hand... so if that adds anything into the discussion.

Makes the fold SO much better. You can get him in a horrible spot, this isn't it.

[gobears]

Makes the fold SO much better. You can get him in a horrible spot, this isn't it.

I actually think that it makes it more attractive to push with the additional info. If you wait, you have seven other players at the table who've noticed this guy's tendencies and are also looking to take all his chips.

I can't count the number of times that I've sat waiting for a hand to bust a big LAG but someone gets there first.

That being said, I don't mind folding either. However, early in the tourney, doubling your stack on a longball play that is 50-50 to hit is a play that I'll make.

[tskillz187]

I actually think that it makes it more attractive to push with the additional info. If you wait, you have seven other players at the table who've noticed this guy's tendencies and are also looking to take all his chips.

I can't count the number of times that I've sat waiting for a hand to bust a big LAG but someone gets there first.

That being said, I don't mind folding either. However, early in the tourney, doubling your stack on a longball play that is 50-50 to hit is a play that I'll make.

I agree that he's got a bullseye because hes playing horrible. But if someone is playing horrible taking our skill out of it and chasing for a 50-50 with him negates our advantage and makes us equal.

For the bold, I generally won't make these plays, especially against a donk. But if I were to make these plays it would be against someone that generally gives me a hard time at the table and I'd be doing it more to knock him out than for the excess chips.

[Bubba83]

I'm with gobears on this one, the extra information makes it an easier push. He will likely fold to our bet if he has played a lot of unsavory hands this way. For all the people saying we could sit back and wait for a big hand to bust a guy that overbets like this, it is MUCH more likely that someone else at the table is going to get that chance before we do.

[bdc30]

I'm with gobears on this one, the extra information makes it an easier push.

I had the same thought. If he's over-pushing his hands this early, we might have even MORE outs (the 10's) OR be ahead of some kind of other flush draw/oesd, etc....(Q T comes to mind...)

Have some gamboooooooool

[Bubba83]

I don't even think he calls our push here very often if he's been overbetting a lot with top pair bad kicker or middle pair, so most times, we're not gambling.

[slix777]

Easy fold here. Pot isn't worth that big of a bet imho. The only time you'd be ahead at this point would be if they were semibluffing with a Qc high flush draw. Otherwise you'd be against something like AJ, KJ, QJ, JJ, or even pocket3s. It's unlikely someone would be that hard without something to fall back on and I'd rather let them have it hear so they'll do it again later when you have a more solid hand rather than chase a flush which could cost you a ton if something like a 10 comes out and you make another big call and still don't hit your hand.

I could also talk myself into pushing here and doubling up with 2 obvious nut draws or blanking out later. I generally play a lil more conservatively at this point of the game tho. Especially when the pot is that small.

[tskillz187]

How come in the how to play a big stack early thread we all agree that it should not be played differently than your regular stack. Yet, when given a coinflip opportunity early against a weak player everyone says GAMBOOL GAMBOOL LETS GET THE STACK!!!!! It doesn't make sense.

[Sea Wasp]

Im happy to fold this quite quickly for that price knowing that i have only invested 50 into this pot.

[Bubba83]

For the last time, we aren't gambling, we're trying to pick up his huge overbet by moving in.

Everyone is saying the pot isn't large enough to fight for. What are you talking about? There isnt 150 in the pot there is 750 in the pot where 600 of that is coming from someone who overbet with a high possibility of a weak hand that will not call a push.

The read is that he overbets like this way too often with unsavory hands.

This gives us so much Fold Equity that it makes it very worth it to shove.

He doesn't even have to fold often for us to have value here.