16 replies to this topic

[revdiv]

You are on one of the last 4 tables of a MTT. You have about 17K in chips. You recently got moved to a new table and have watched the same player (with about 30K chips) make blind steal attempts for the last 3 hands (2 successfully, 1 got caught and showed trash). The blinds are now 400/800 and you are in the big blind.You are dealt 10-9 suited. UTG folds. The thief is UTG+1 and raises to 1,600, the amount of his previous steal raises. It is folded around to you.1st question - would you play this at all for another 800 or would you let it go? If you would play it - call or raise?I called. The flop was J-7-8 for the straight. 2nd question - how would you play this hand out?

[Absolute]

Fold.Dont post results either unless you want objective analysis.

[Swift_Psycho]

Meh, you probably should fold this, but personally i probably would have called out of stupidity. Once that flop hits, I just check and hope the guy hangs himself.

[MasterLJ]

Really depends what kind of player you are. I'd call it personally, but that's just me. You are risking 1/25th of your stack on a marginal hand that is probably better than your opponents, but the fact that you could possibly put an end to the bullying could save you more than 1/25th of your stack in the long run.

[Vade]

9-10 suited is enough to defend with, against a minimum raise from a massively aggressive playerOut of position sucks, but mehMost Hand histories go up to the river without showing results, so saying you flopped a straight is no biggie

[looshle]

If there aren't any antes, then you only have to call 800 when there's 2800 in the pot. More than 3:1 on your money. I don't fold much to a min raise preflop ESPECIALLY when you're 4 handed. You have to call here.I'd c/r the flop too. He's either got nothing or some high PP he's trying to be fancy with, with the min raise that he's too stupid to fold.

[Mr Monkey]

I would reraise. I like 10-9 suited it makes a lot of good hands. Your only in big trouble if the other players hads a big PP or a 10-or 9 with a higher kicker. After the flop i would check and let him hang himself

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I would just call the raise. Maniacs and steal-whores can be very tricky to play, because in the end, they get AA just as many times as you will, and it screws you over big time when they do. For pot odds, chip position, and the strength of T9s I personally would just call the raise.I disagree heartily with people that think a re-raise PRE-FLOP is in order. The earlier position of the raise, the more credit you HAVE to give it. If you're ready to be peeing in the wind at a maniac, you DEFINITELY don't want to do it out of position with a significantly less than made hand.T9 is definitely worth a flop for 10% of your chips, 5% of which got posted anyway. We just have to proceed carefully on the flop.Fortunately that flop was a bingo flop for us. If there was no flush draw, I'd check it to him and see what he does with it. If there was, I'd do my favorite bet of all: the ol' half-pot bet. It looks indecisive and eminently raise-able, and the odds are cheap enough to just call with overs (to weak players anyway). Obviously, we're baiting him to raise us. We could have anything in the BB, but for a half-pot bet the last thing he'll put us on is the flopped nuts. On whatever turn comes, I'd probably bet pot or at least a committing amount. If he doesn't call, I'm not big on slowplaying anyway... and he'll learn not to mess with our blinds.

[Mr Monkey]

obviously calling is the safe play but if u call and u miss the flop and u check and he bets u have to fold and u look weak. If u reraise he might fold or he may call and then u can bet out on the flop whether u have hit the flop or not. If he moves all in u can still fold. also the next time around if he knows u reraised him he might think twice before trying a steal attempt. if u call and fold on the flop to his bet it really doesnt stop him from trying to steal from u. Also the other players will noticed u arent a push over. U cant live in fear of AA chances are he doesnt but if he does he will probably reraise and u could fold. If he just called with AA u could win the rest of his chips with the right flop. Safe way is to call but if your more of an agressive player i like reraising

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Say you re-raise. In my experience a vast majority of the time (especially with him in acting position AND chip position) they'll just call the re-raise. You miss the flop NOW, and you can't really play with no cards and no position, but now you're committed.He can have a lot less than AA and we'd still be way behind. And, calling a raise from the blind also means you're willing to defend your blinds with strong enough holdings against players we know are overly aggressive.The best case scenario preflop for a re-raise is obviously him folding... but for his chip position and his position on us this hand I can't see him doing that for anything less than an all-in. And, anything he could call an all-in with would obviously have us dominated. So now we have to play in a raised pot out of position with a pretty weak (heads up) hand for a very significant portion of our chips late in a tournament.Preflop you bring your big guns (AA KK QQ) to the big wars, and T9s is far from a big gun preflop. It's not the end of the world if you call the raise, miss the flop, and check/fold, which is why I think calling is far preferable to re-raising.

[Mr Monkey]

if its a low buy in tourney or if the bettor is a bad player calling is probaly a better play cause the bettor will probably call your raise more times then a then a good player, and will not give up as easily on the flop. But if the bettor is a good player your raise has a better chance of working also it will be alot easier to bluff on the flop. it comes down to your read of the player, if u feel he is weak or if u think he has a big hand and whether or not he can lay down after u raise preflop and if he can be bluffed on the flop

[akishore]

i agree with TJ, a call is in order much more than a reraise. a reraise in NL out of position and with a not-strong-enough hand like this is just asking for trouble. further, getting too aggressive pre-flop when concerning blind steals also asks for trouble--as TJ said, you must NOT loosen up against a maniac, rather, you have to tighten up against him because he can break you everytime he gets aces or kings (plus his raise is from EP).that said, T9s is DEFINITELY strong enough to make this a call.on the flop, just go with your read... if he tends to raise people's bets when they bet into him after he raised pre-flop, bet 1/2 pot or so. otherwise, go for a checkraise. a check-call is too obvious though, so either bet out or check-raise.aseem

[Mr Monkey]

I wouldnt think he had AA or KK. his bet from EP wouldnt concern me. I steal from their all the time and i know others do all so. It a good spot to steal from because people think u have a good hand and their have been no limpers so u dont have to worry about people with marginal hands coming into the pot. If u get reraised u can just fold confident your probably beat. It all comes down to your read of the player. i would reraise if i thought the player wasnt strong. even if he called with like a kJ or KQ u still can out flop him or bluff when a A hits

[ArseneLupin3]

Mr Monkey said:

I would reraise. I like 10-9 suited it makes a lot of good hands. Your only in big trouble if the other players hads a big PP or a 10-or 9 with a higher kicker. After the flop i would check and let him hang himself

So you should build a pot where any raise of a flop bet will be close to if not an allin? With a drawing hand? Out of position? You are a dog to any ace, king, queen, jack, or reasonable ten high, any pocket pair, etc. If you flop a pair, it is not an easy hand to play out of position.Folding is bad, reraising is worse. Calling is the only option.

[revdiv]

There are a bunch of things I don't know about this game yet and you guys see things that I don't. Mr Monkey made a comment about the buy-in amount, which never occurred to me would have any bearing on how hands are played but I guess it would after all. Thanks for bringing that up Mr Monkey.This was a freeroll that I was using to gain No Limit experience as I have approximately none at this point. I've been sticking to limit but wanted to explore no limit and figured this was a cheap way to test the waters.Often I will look back at a hand (win or lose) and second guess my play. And that is what I am doing here. With your help, thanks.Given my pre-flop choices of fold, call, or raise I am pretty comfortable with my choice. Even more so now that the majority opinion supports this.But I don't know if I played it out correctly. Given the flopped straight would slowplaying or trying to take the pot right then have been the smarter move?There was a little voice whispering in one ear that I had a fair amount of chips, there were others who had far fewer, and I could possibly coast into the last table with a conservative approach. Another little voice was telling the other ear I would be in a far better position at the end if I had twice as many chips rather than just a few thousand more. Oh, these voices in my head, it's so confusing!!!!!I had only seen this guy play 3 hands and it was all aggrssion - all steal. The only time he got caught was when he got called once by someone not in the blinds who was forced all-in to call (with a pair of 8's). The guy had nothing. I had no idea what he would do after the flop, hadn't seen a hand go that far with more betting.I was really taking a flyer as to what to do next. So, slowplay and try to take a big pile or bet and maybe just take what's there? And, again, I appreciate the help thus far.

[ArseneLupin3]

So you don't have enough info to know if he'll steal frequently enough postflop.1. Lead flop for ~2/3 pot or full pot if 2-flush.2. Check-call flop, check turn.3. Check-call flop, lead turn.4. Check-raise flop, lead turn5. Check-raise flop, check turn.I prefer 1 followed by 3, provided this guy has been really active. 4 is okay, but aggro players frequently recognize checkraises as a sign they're being trapped.I hope he had AJ and not a set or something.