dna4ever 2 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Sup guys, I wanted to post a hand from my Tunica trip last night and get some feedback.The table was pretty loose and I had been there about 3 hours and built my $200 stack steadily up to $575Hand comes up where there are 6 limpers for $2 and I pick up black kings in the BB and raise it $20 to $22.Folds around to the table drunk donk that has already lost about $600 who ofcourse calls the $20 and then the table big stack who calls the $20. My read on this guy was he was a good player who was capable of making plays, but for the most part a pretty solid poker player. He had about $800 in front of him.Flop comes down J 6 7 First to act I bet $50 into the $74 pot.Drunk guy instacalls, big stack calls.Turn 3 I bet $100 into $224 attempting to get out anyone who was on straight draw or now possible heart draw.Drunk guy folds, big stack calls.River comes 3 I make $100 value bet into $424 thinking 2 pair may have been counterfeited and no draws got there unless had 45 and flopped open ended and hit when the 3 cameDrunk guy folds and big stack goes all in and has me covered, I have $303 left in front of me.I go into the tank for a good 3 - 5 minutes and half surprised no one called the clock on me.The guy limped preflop, called $20, smooth calls flop bet, smooth calls turn bet, pushes the river. In my mind he had to have hit a set of 6s, 7s, or Js on the flop and he trapped me hard.I have $303 to call to win $1230.What do you do ............. ? Link to post Share on other sites
GWCGWC 83 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 i call Live 1/2 NL 200 max is one of the hardest games to play.I like the size of the flop bet, but the turn is where you have to define and protect your hand a little better. Link to post Share on other sites
booyaga 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Sup guys, I wanted to post a hand from my Tunica trip last night and get some feedback.The table was pretty loose and I had been there about 3 hours and built my $200 stack steadily up to $575Hand comes up where there are 6 limpers for $2 and I pick up black kings in the BB and raise it $20 to $22.Folds around to the table drunk donk that has already lost about $600 who ofcourse calls the $20 and then the table big stack who calls the $20. My read on this guy was he was a good player who was capable of making plays, but for the most part a pretty solid poker player. He had about $800 in front of him.Flop comes down J 6 7 First to act I bet $50 into the $74 pot.Drunk guy instacalls, big stack calls.Turn 3 I bet $100 into $224 attempting to get out anyone who was on straight draw or now possible heart draw.Drunk guy folds, big stack calls.River comes 3 I make $100 value bet into $424 thinking 2 pair may have been counterfeited and no draws got there unless had 45 and flopped open ended and hit when the 3 cameDrunk guy folds and big stack goes all in and has me covered, I have $303 left in front of me.I go into the tank for a good 3 - 5 minutes and half surprised no one called the clock on me.The guy limped preflop, called $20, smooth calls flop bet, smooth calls turn bet, pushes the river. In my mind he had to have hit a set of 6s, 7s, or Js on the flop and he trapped me hard.I have $303 to call to win $1230.What do you do ............. ?shave my moustacheoh...and then i call Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Sup guys, I wanted to post a hand from my Tunica trip last night and get some feedback.The table was pretty loose and I had been there about 3 hours and built my $200 stack steadily up to $575Hand comes up where there are 6 limpers for $2 and I pick up black kings in the BB and raise it $20 to $22.Folds around to the table drunk donk that has already lost about $600 who ofcourse calls the $20 and then the table big stack who calls the $20. My read on this guy was he was a good player who was capable of making plays, but for the most part a pretty solid poker player. He had about $800 in front of him.Flop comes down J 6 7 First to act I bet $50 into the $74 pot.Drunk guy instacalls, big stack calls.Turn 3 I bet $100 into $224 attempting to get out anyone who was on straight draw or now possible heart draw.Drunk guy folds, big stack calls.River comes 3 I make $100 value bet into $424 thinking 2 pair may have been counterfeited and no draws got there unless had 45 and flopped open ended and hit when the 3 cameDrunk guy folds and big stack goes all in and has me covered, I have $303 left in front of me.I go into the tank for a good 3 - 5 minutes and half surprised no one called the clock on me.The guy limped preflop, called $20, smooth calls flop bet, smooth calls turn bet, pushes the river. In my mind he had to have hit a set of 6s, 7s, or Js on the flop and he trapped me hard.I have $303 to call to win $1230.What do you do ............. ?Your bet looks real weak, especially since the straight card showed up. The bad news, is that he plays a small set, or a rivered straight, the same way.You're getting a huge price(4-1). I probably call and shake my head when he shows me some 54 nonsense.I'd bet more on the flop, and wouldn't hate over-betting(pushing) the turn, for future reference. Link to post Share on other sites
SAM_Hard8 50 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 shit my pants and then call Link to post Share on other sites
Allie 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 i call Live 1/2 NL 200 max is one of the hardest games to play.I like the size of the flop bet, but the turn is where you have to define and protect your hand a little better. Your bet looks real weak, especially since the straight card showed up. The bad news, is that he plays a small set, or a rivered straight, the same way.You're getting a huge price(4-1). I probably call and shake my head when he shows me some 54 nonsense.I'd bet more on the flop, and wouldn't hate over-betting(pushing) the turn, for future reference. What they said. And....I'm sure this is wrong....but after making that weakish turn bet, and getting the call.....I probably push on the river....put the decision to him instead of letting him reraise you and putting the decision on you. The river bet was super weak.....maybe he's made a set or str8 - yes, but maybe he's got AJ or QQ or maybe he's just outplaying you, since the turn and river bets were weak. If I'm gonna call anyway....then I'd rather play it this way. But then again, ISAP. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 What they said. And....I'm sure this is wrong....but after making that weakish turn bet, and getting the call.....I probably push on the river....put the decision to him instead of letting him reraise you and putting the decision on you. The river bet was super weak.....maybe he's made a set or str8 - yes, but maybe he's got AJ or QQ or maybe he's just outplaying you, since the turn and river bets were weak. If I'm gonna call anyway....then I'd rather play it this way. But then again, ISAP.I really doubt a good player's limping with QQ or AJ pf. I don't know what we're beating here beside a bluff. QJ, AJ, or KJ raises the flop or turn presumably, maybe even pf. Despite the good odds I fold it. A good player's not bloating the pot with a hand on the turn that's behind KK. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I don't hate checking the turn and calling down, to keep the pot small out of positon. Most of the value from this hand apparently comes from the drunk dude tossing money into the pot with nothing. I know I'd want to protect my hand, but, I really hate playing a big pot out of position with an overpair, and I think you can make more money in the long run by keeping the idiot in the hand.Tough spot though. I don't think you beat a whole hell of a lot, but, I don't think you need to, for the price you're getting. If you check the river you can easily fold, I think. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 A good player's not bloating the pot OOP with a hand on the turn that's behind KK.Hero is OOP, not Villain. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hero is OOP, not Villain.Yeah I edited my post. Just realized he was in the BB. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Good feedback. I really put the guy on a set and felt I was beat. After about 5 minutes two things went through my head. The dude instapushed on the river and soon as I bet $100 he pretty much beat me to the pot saying all in. A felt a novice player may do that (Phil Hellmouth style), but this guy was a good player so I thought me may milk it a bit more. The fact I was getting 4:1 was the ultimate reason I went ahead and made the call. I told the guy I KNOW I am beat, but I have too much money in the pot and either you have a monster or you have nothing.The guy flips up 58 of hearts for busted OESD and picked up flush draw on the turn. He says Good Call and I rake the $1230 pot. I know I am beat 9/10 times there, but I guess it worked out this time.I liked my turn bet, but can see the points for a bigger bet. My whole thinking was just go give bad odds to straight and flush draws.The river bet was super weak I know, but I honestly thought I had the pot won, even if the guy had 2 pair he got counterfeited so I just threw in what I thought was a value bet that the guy may be able to call if he had a hand like JA or QQ. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 You picked up on the tell, ya just didn't register it. His instapush is a classic example of, 'strong when weak, weak when strong'.Good call, though. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Nice call. Your reasoning for the size of your bet on the turn was completely off..you need to bet at least $175 on the turn to do what you were aiming to do. The weak, weak river bet was begging to get raised. Glad it worked out well though.One thing we talk about when talking about betting strat is how it makes a hand easier to play later...not just about value, etc. Betting more on the turn and river helps define your hand AND theirs, and keeps the move-making down.You pwned that guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Allie 0 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I really doubt a good player's limping with QQ or AJ pf. I don't know what we're beating here beside a bluff. QJ, AJ, or KJ raises the flop or turn presumably, maybe even pf. Despite the good odds I fold it. A good player's not bloating the pot with a hand on the turn that's behind KK.Good point. I should have re-read the hand....I was focusing on the post-flop play and forgetting that the guy limped pre. Although I think a limper with AJ is possible, as well as KJ and QJ. So my other scenario of the guy trying to outplay him, after weakish turn bet and super weak river bet, was apparently the case. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 What they said. And....I'm sure this is wrong....but after making that weakish turn bet, and getting the call.....I probably push on the river....put the decision to him instead of letting him reraise you and putting the decision on you. The river bet was super weak.....maybe he's made a set or str8 - yes, but maybe he's got AJ or QQ or maybe he's just outplaying you, since the turn and river bets were weak. If I'm gonna call anyway....then I'd rather play it this way. But then again, ISAP.The problem is that for the range Chicken puts him on our opponent's river decision is really easy if we push. If he missed, then he folds. If he has a boat, then he calls. I agree that it's a little tougher for him if he has AJ or QQ and then has to decide if our hero is overplaying AK or 88 for some reason. The villain should have made a move on the turn if he was going to make one, in my opinion. He waited until the hero was pot-committed to bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
Allie 0 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 The problem is that for the range Chicken puts him on our opponent's river decision is really easy if we push. If he missed, then he folds. If he has a boat, then he calls. I agree that it's a little tougher for him if he has AJ or QQ and then has to decide if our hero is overplaying AK or 88 for some reason. The villain should have made a move on the turn if he was going to make one, in my opinion. He waited until the hero was pot-committed to bluff.I agree with what your saying Dave. If he has the goods, then his decision is clear and we lose. But, if we are going to call his reraise anyway....then the push accomplishes avoiding what happened....the opportunity for the villian to try to push us off the hand. Chicken considered folding. I guess saying that putting the decision to the villian was wrong....if he has us beat, then he's calling, and if he has AJ or KJ, etc, then we want him to call. I just didn't like the weakish turn bet, and really really didn't like the weak river bet. I guess more what I was saying was to avoid putting ourselves in the position to have to make the kind of decision that Chicken had to make. But.....it DID work out for him, in that he picked up an extra $300. This is why I don't play much NL cash games. LOL. I have a lot to learn. Link to post Share on other sites
GWCGWC 83 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 This is why I don't play much NL cash games. LOL. I have a lot to learn.When playing NL you need to ask yourself; Are you the bunny or the balloon? Link to post Share on other sites
Allie 0 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 When playing NL you need to ask yourself; Are you the bunny or the balloon?Well, since I AM the bunny, I need to work on BEING the bunny. :PBE THE BUNNY.p.s. I think I may have found a new avatar. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 The problem is that for the range Chicken puts him on our opponent's river decision is really easy if we push. If he missed, then he folds. If he has a boat, then he calls. I agree that it's a little tougher for him if he has AJ or QQ and then has to decide if our hero is overplaying AK or 88 for some reason. The villain should have made a move on the turn if he was going to make one, in my opinion. He waited until the hero was pot-committed to bluff.If villain makes a move on the turn I have a whole different set of problems. If I make that same $100 turn bet and villain pushes I probably have to let it go. I would probably have been more inclined to call though thinking villain had a flush draw, straight draw, etc and would villain really push the nuts, 2nd nuts here? Having less money in the pot and less odds would have made that a totally tough decision that I am not sure how I would have responded.Dave, we gonna play some $1/$2 NL tomorrow at your club in Indy or maybe play a lil home game @ your house? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 I agree with what your saying Dave. If he has the goods, then his decision is clear and we lose. But, if we are going to call his reraise anyway....then the push accomplishes avoiding what happened....the opportunity for the villian to try to push us off the hand. Chicken considered folding. I guess saying that putting the decision to the villian was wrong....if he has us beat, then he's calling, and if he has AJ or KJ, etc, then we want him to call. I just didn't like the weakish turn bet, and really really didn't like the weak river bet. I guess more what I was saying was to avoid putting ourselves in the position to have to make the kind of decision that Chicken had to make. But.....it DID work out for him, in that he picked up an extra $300. This is why I don't play much NL cash games. LOL. I have a lot to learn.Pushing did not even cross my mind actually. I guess I was greedy trying to extract another $100 value out of the hand. If I push and he folds I miss out on money? Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Sup guys, I wanted to post a hand from my Tunica trip last night and get some feedback.The table was pretty loose and I had been there about 3 hours and built my $200 stack steadily up to $575Hand comes up where there are 6 limpers for $2 and I pick up black kings in the BB and raise it $20 to $22.Folds around to the table drunk donk that has already lost about $600 who ofcourse calls the $20 and then the table big stack who calls the $20. My read on this guy was he was a good player who was capable of making plays, but for the most part a pretty solid poker player. He had about $800 in front of him.Flop comes down J 6 7 First to act I bet $50 into the $74 pot.Drunk guy instacalls, big stack calls.Turn 3 I bet $100 into $224 attempting to get out anyone who was on straight draw or now possible heart draw.Drunk guy folds, big stack calls.River comes 3 I make $100 value bet into $424 thinking 2 pair may have been counterfeited and no draws got there unless had 45 and flopped open ended and hit when the 3 cameDrunk guy folds and big stack goes all in and has me covered, I have $303 left in front of me.I go into the tank for a good 3 - 5 minutes and half surprised no one called the clock on me.The guy limped preflop, called $20, smooth calls flop bet, smooth calls turn bet, pushes the river. In my mind he had to have hit a set of 6s, 7s, or Js on the flop and he trapped me hard.I have $303 to call to win $1230.What do you do ............. ?Drunk guy folded on the turn, right? Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Dave, we gonna play some $1/$2 NL tomorrow at your club in Indy or maybe play a lil home game @ your house?We'll be 5-handed if Conner and Raistlin play. Hmm, maybe we'll seek out other local action. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 Drunk guy folded on the turn, right?ah yea, typo. Drunk guy folded on the turn. Was HU going into river. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 We'll be 5-handed if Conner and Raistlin play. Hmm, maybe we'll seek out other local action.Hahahha.I have no reservations about taking money from your kids so whatever you all want to do. Link to post Share on other sites
bleacherbum3 9 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 We'll be 5-handed if Conner and Raistlin play. Hmm, maybe we'll seek out other local action.Damn, I'd drive down but I have to work tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
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