13 replies to this topic

[akishore]

Hand #1:

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$600 PLO8, 9-handed

MP2 - $300 ish
MP3 - covers everyone
SB - $300 ish
Hero - $600 ish
UTG - $900 ish

Hero is BB with 7 K A 7.

UTG calls $6, 2 folds, MP2 calls $6, MP3 calls $6, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

($28.50, 5 plrs) 7 T 4

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $28.50, MP2 calls $28.50, MP3 calls $28.50, SB calls $28.50, Hero raises to $199.50, ...

--

(Hand 2 in next post because of picture limit.)

Aseem

[akishore]

Hand #2:

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$400 PLO8, 9-handed

SB - $100 ish
Hero - $400 ish
UTG - $130 ish
UTG+1 - $40
MP1 - $400 ish
MP3 - $90 ish
CO - $160 ish
Button - covers everyone

Hero is BB with K K 10 4. CO posts $4.

UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, 1 fold, MP3 calls $4, CO checks, Button calls $4, SB completes, Hero checks.

($32, 8 plrs) K T 7

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $16, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $16, CO folds, Button calls $16, SB folds, Hero raises to $112, ...

--

Aseem

[deadlysyns]

Hand #1:

--

$600 PLO8, 9-handed

MP2 - $300 ish
MP3 - covers everyone
SB - $300 ish
Hero - $600 ish
UTG - $900 ish

Hero is BB with 7 K A 7.

UTG calls $6, 2 folds, MP2 calls $6, MP3 calls $6, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

($28.50, 5 plrs) 7 T 4

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $28.50, MP2 calls $28.50, MP3 calls $28.50, SB calls $28.50, Hero raises to $199.50, ...

--

(Hand 2 in next post because of picture limit.)

Aseem

I dont get too crazy with sets without a backup low. I understand you are making them pay for their draws but you have to avoid alot of outs that will kill your set.

[akishore]

I understand, but I'm asking from a purely EV point of view. This is of course super high variance, but am I doing anything wrong by just pumping this pot up when I *think* I have the best of it?

And also, if the money doesn't get in on the flop, the turn can be tricky to play depending on what it is and the stacks still in play.

Aseem

[deadlysyns]

I understand, but I'm asking from a purely EV point of view. This is of course super high variance, but am I doing anything wrong by just pumping this pot up when I *think* I have the best of it?

And also, if the money doesn't get in on the flop, the turn can be tricky to play depending on what it is and the stacks still in play.

Aseem

UTG will prolly call your raise along with the guys behind him. Only way for you to scoop is for board to pair and big cards come. I would have just called the PB then dump the hand on turn if bad comes.

[deadlysyns]

Hand #2:

--

$400 PLO8, 9-handed

SB - $100 ish
Hero - $400 ish
UTG - $130 ish
UTG+1 - $40
MP1 - $400 ish
MP3 - $90 ish
CO - $160 ish
Button - covers everyone

Hero is BB with K K 10 4. CO posts $4.

UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, 1 fold, MP3 calls $4, CO checks, Button calls $4, SB completes, Hero checks.

($32, 8 plrs) K T 7

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $16, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $16, CO folds, Button calls $16, SB folds, Hero raises to $112, ...

--

Aseem

I like the play here. If they are drawing to a flush or straight you are a favorite to win.

[checkymcfold]

aseem, you have to be a little careful on draw heavy boards with no low draw yourself. remember that a flush draw and low draw is ahead of you in both of these spots (barely, but ahead).

but generally you're right--shoving sets is +ev but also ++++variance. if you're going to play this style (which is similar to what i do), i would roll yourself at least 20 buyins if you want to play it safe.

edit: hand one you're ahead of a fd/ld, i think, since you have a running live ace low, but the point stands. gotta be careful about the flush draw/low draw boards. 99% of other spots sets are worth a shove, and if the players are bad enough, these spots are ok too for sure. just be careful.

[akishore]

ok so the consensus is bad shove hand 1 but good shove hand 2?

aseem

[deadlysyns]

ok so the consensus is bad shove hand 1 but good shove hand 2?

aseem

Play safe on hand 1, shove on hand 2.

[checkymcfold]

ok so the consensus is bad shove hand 1 but good shove hand 2?

aseem

not "bad," per se. like i said, if the villain's bad or aggro enough, this is definitely a shove for me too. what do you know about the other guy on each hand?

[ahosang]

Hand 2 is the easiest shove in the world - Mute would probably tell you to shove hand 1 as well, but for me it's table dependent. Safe play or even a fold. That's right, a fold.
Not sure why so many people want to call, but if they're generally filling all draws(low, flush, str8, 2 pair) then i fold if i believe these players may hold cards that blunt my boat draw. You don't even hold top set.
Maybe I'm too weak-tight at this game, but there you go. I play very cautious and I know I leave money on the table, but there are other forms of poker that I gamble at, not PLO8 though...

deadlysyns, play any Chinese Poker lately?

[deadlysyns]

Hand 2 is the easiest shove in the world - Mute would probably tell you to shove hand 1 as well, but for me it's table dependent. Safe play or even a fold. That's right, a fold.
Not sure why so many people want to call, but if they're generally filling all draws(low, flush, str8, 2 pair) then i fold if i believe these players may hold cards that blunt my boat draw. You don't even hold top set.
Maybe I'm too weak-tight at this game, but there you go. I play very cautious and I know I leave money on the table, but there are other forms of poker that I gamble at, not PLO8 though...

deadlysyns, play any Chinese Poker lately?

I have only played friendly $1-2 a point a game where I deal poker. I was in vegas quite a bit in December but the Wynn did was not spreading it. I never made out to the Bellagio during the Five Diamond because I knew it would be too busy. I doubt that I will make out to Tunica this year.

[trader1499]

I dont get too crazy with sets without a backup low. I understand you are making them pay for their draws but you have to avoid alot of outs that will kill your set.

Definately. After winning and losing a good share of flopped sets, I've learned to be cautious on how I play. What really hurts is when you get the fullhouse but someone has the higher one cause you flopped low or middle set.

[Vman96]

aseem, you have to be a little careful on draw heavy boards with no low draw yourself. remember that a flush draw and low draw is ahead of you in both of these spots (barely, but ahead).

This is a good point checky...when I used to play a crapload of low-limit PLO8 back in the Prima days, one of the favorite things to do was jam all my money in on the flop with a flush/low draw and get top set all pissed off because he figured he was wayyyyyyyyyy ahead. Athough at the stakes I played...that was like an avg. EV of $1.6 in that scenario given $40 buyins...