12 replies to this topic

[brando]

Maybe akishore, or anyone who can help we'll give some feedback. I'm pretty sure I played this wrong but then I looked at the odds and I was a 68% favorite (I think, could need some verification) none the less here's what happened.Game: Omaha Hi NL $20 max buyin .10 - .20 blindsMy stack $26Him $125 (just sat down and he had that much no clue how, he's good I guess)Me: K J J 10 He raised to .50 pre flop, I called.Flop: J 10 9 The first few hands I saw his was just pushing everyone around, well this hand he did the same and immediately pushed all in. All folds to me. I thought well he must have KQ and nut flush draw, he must have 1 of the 2 at the very least.Do you call (puts you all in) or fold?Thanks in advance.I'll post the results a little later

[Vade]

Easy foldThere's what? 1.20 in the pot?You've got top set, the second nut flush draw (bad) and a gutshot straight drawAnd don't tell us what he had in the first post!

[brando]

Oh yeah whoops! I'll delete real quick!!

[brando]

I know the pot is small and that folding would be the best idea, I forgot to say how many limpers, but the pot was somewhere around $3. On the flop everyone folded to me.Again this guy was betting with anything, he hit a J high flush and moved in and got beat by a bigger one, thus I started to wonder how strong he really was. Plus if I'm the favorite then I should certainly call right? I'm new to Omaha though and that was my hang up - if he has the straight are my outs enough to make me a favorite.

[Vade]

I'm new to it as wellYou don't have the nuts, not even closeYou do have a draw to a hand that could be the nuts (top set)You could call a pot sized bet I think, but not for all your chipsWith a 10 in your hand, you're drawing thin to only 9 outs at this point and 12 outs on the turn 1 J2 10s3 9s3Ks3 of whatever comes on the turn presuming it doesn't make you a full houseI know it's tempting, but drawing against a made hand with almost nothing in the pot (even 4 dollars is miniscule)You'd be risking 25 dollars to win...29 dollars?Find a better spot

[akishore]

against KQ + nut flush draw (e.g. As Kh Qs x) you're between 28% - 33%, so unless the pot is offering you a great price, it's an easy fold.if you're more concerned about whether you read him right or not (put him on that strong of a hand or thought he was weak and pushing people around), i can't help you with that. however, it does seem like he is strongly protecting his hand by pushing all-in right there, most likely overbetting the pot.what might he be protecting?1. a lower straight, no/weak flush draw - you have a lot of redraws to beat him. you have a higher straight draw, a good flush draw, and a boat draw. you are a favorite against this, even if he has four spades (e.g. Qs 8s 7s 6s). easy call.2. nut flush draw, no straight - you currently have the best hand, and you are ahead. he is drawing to the nut flush while you are drawing to either blanks or the board pairing. if he hits on the turn, you still have a redraw to a boat and even a straight flush (given that he doesn't have the Qs). again, easy call.3. nut straight, no/weak flush draw - you have a strong redraw to a flush and a boat as well as to tie (given that he does not also have a redraw to a higher straight with an ace). call. you're about 50% to win while he's only around 40% (even with three spades, e.g. Kx Qs 8s 7s) strong and easy call.4. nut straight, nut flush draw - this is the bad one. however, he would have no need to "protect" this hand. easy fold.i would have actually called in this case, but it's very understandable why you would fold since you don't have the nuts and your flush draw isn't to the nuts.however, consider that if your trip jacks aren't good right now, your strong strong draw most likely is, and if your draw isn't good, your trip jacks are good, since your opponent probably does not have as strong a draw as you (since he will not be drawing to a boat in addition to the worst case nut flush + nut straight daws, e.g. As Kc 8s 7c).i think you were a little gunshy and put him on a monster hand, which doesn't make sense considering he was LAG as you describe and that he immediately pushed all in.for future reference, add that to your list of physical tells... immediate all-ins are usually weak; they're worried and are protecting a mediocre hand.aseem

[akishore]

vade, i strongly disagree. this is an easy call to me.that said, i DO understand why he folded. it is scary to not draw to the nuts in omaha or omaha hi/lo.however, you HAVE to consider what possible holdings you have, and realize that heads-up, you aren't always drawing to the nuts.i strongly say this is a call situation. the fact that he is LAG and pushing people around and immediately pushed all-in just supports it a little bit more.aseemedit: a case can be made for folding since there's so little in the pot, but understand that LAG players get punished by overbetting pots and getting called by strong hands. you can't keep folding to overbets the entire night... this is an ideal hand to make a stand and double up.

[brando]

Thank you akishore...great post again.I wasn't gunshy I hit the call button!He showed 7 8 10 4 os... and flopped the low straight.Why he raised pre flop no idea here.I ended up hitting nothing and he took down the pot. I bought back in for another $20 and ran it up to $100 so all's not bad.The main reason I called was he pushed with marginal hands...hadn't seen him push with the nuts once (small sample however.)

[akishore]

no problem. forget results, i think you made the right play.one question, was this live or online? i got the sense it was live from your post, but not sure.you mentioned in a post that you weren't sure how many outs you had.well, if you only draw to the nuts here, you don't have that many outs. vade is correct that you only have between 8-11 outs.consider, however, what i said. if your trip jacks aren't good, your draws most likely are. only against the worst possible and very unlikely scenario of being against As Kx Qs xx do you not have a monster draw (but even in that case, you're not so behind as you have a fairly decent boat draw, even when he's sharing one of your outs like with As Kx Qs Tx). so, how many outs would you have?9 spades to give you K-high flush3 queens to give you K-high straight7/10 outs to give you top boat or quadson the flop, you have 19 outs... on the turn, you have 22 outs.so you most likely had enough outs to call.again, forget results, i strongly believe calling was correct.aseem

[KDawgCometh]

why were you playing Omaha in Nolimit form. Play it in Pot Limit Form, more skillfull

[Absolute]

sucka

[brando]

To aseem - it was online and not liveTo kdawg - This may seem strange but I've never played pot limit games. I just play limit and nl he, and limit stud. I don't really feel I understand the whole pot limit structure well enough to play in a game I don't know a ton about too. Though I'm thinking of trying PLHE out as that would be my best bet to learn pot limit.

[KDawgCometh]

No Limit Omaha honestly is kinda useless in that whenever someone has the current nuts they can just move in and end the hand right there whereas if its Pot limit you will be seeing a river for the most part and you need to use more skill to play it. Give it a try, its not as hard as you might think and it plays better than Nolimit Omaha