53 replies to this topic

[NickTheKid]

Depends on position and how many players, I know where smash is going with this, but dont TAKE IT ALL SET IN STONE. A-Ko is a good starting hand, and should be limped with.

[Swift_Psycho]

NickTheKid said:

Depends on position and how many players, I know where smash is going with this, but dont TAKE IT ALL SET IN STONE. A-Ko is a good starting hand, and should be limped with.

No, don't get me wrong. I do play A-Koff, I'm just curious as to whether or not it should be played according to Smash's strategy.

[Smasharoo]

Do you fold A-K offsuit pre-flop then?No, but most people should.I can play it well, most people can't.If you're looking for an easy mechanical NL strat while you learn to beat the game I'd fold it, yes. It's a hand lots of people misplay to the point of losing money with it.

[NickTheKid]

I know what you were asking;)

[NormanHaupt]

I've tried Smash's / Bauer's NL theory, and, for me, it seemed to work- sort of. I ended up pushing when I hit my set and lost to someone making a straight.This is NL though, and it happens. As Smash would say, 'Get over it.' While their strageties are sound, they ARE boring. Bauer will even admit that he plays 4 tables NL just because he gets so ridiciously bored.I will be trying to four table NL using only this straety if PStars ever lets me on. I'm curious to see over 1k hands, if I'm ahead or not.

[Smasharoo]

While their strageties are sound, they ARE boring. Bauer will even admit that he plays 4 tables NL just because he gets so ridiciously bored. NL's jusr a boring game.More excitng than, say, Stud8 though.

[Swift_Psycho]

Smasharoo said:

Do you fold A-K offsuit pre-flop then?No, but most people should.I can play it well, most people can't.If you're looking for an easy mechanical NL strat while you learn to beat the game I'd fold it, yes.  It's a hand lots of people misplay to the point of losing money with it.

Understood. At the limits I play (small), the hand has made me a ton of my money, so I would think that folding it all the time would have been kind of tight. Regardless, I agree, it certainly is very easy to misplay. Just a few minutes ago, I had some guy check/calling my pot-sized bets on the flop and turn when I had queens and he just had A-K and was trying to hit one of his six outs by the river. Happily, I busted him.

[jack24bauer24]

NL played the way I play it can be boring...I play good cards and try to play them well.Sometimes you have to fold a set when you think its beat, sometimes you have to fold 2 pair when you think its beat...you can always wait for a situation where you know you aren't beat....all these things come with lots and lots of practice and experience.I don't find NL boring, its boring as in you dont' play many hands, but the ones you do play can be extremely interesting/stressful/thought provoking.I never go all in with KK preflop anymore if i'm playing against someone who also buys in for the max. I'll fold QQ preflop if given a very strong reraise, and depending on the raise before me i might just fold it without putting a cent into the pot.And yes AK offsuit can be folded preflop, I do it now and again. I've folded kk preflop before....I wouldn't reccomend doing this if you are newer or newish, but it can be done and have it be the right play.Keep in mind I've played 10's of thousands of NL hands and have seen a lot and experienced a lot, you take your beats and hits as you go, but learn from them, I do...you might lose 50 dollars in a hand, but you can win 500 in the future because of that beat.Also my strategy is percently suited for a .50-1 game...I can't say I've logged hardly anytime playing 1-2...maybe a couple sessions where I got a couple big hands and made a big score...I dont' bluff at .50-1, and I realize that as you move up making semi bluffs and bluffs are required more and more...but when you are playing the lower limits, they just aren't a good play unless you know exactly what you are doing.I don't reccommend doing this unless you are a far above average player.

[NormanHaupt]

I think it was Bauer who said to me:You're never pot commited in a ring game.

[jack24bauer24]

I also suggest not limping with aX suited...I don't win by chasing flushes, as most of the time you get into losing situations if you don't understand pot and implied odds...and when your ace hits you get into kicker trouble and its a big mess.

[Mantis666]

Let me get this right.Limp in with QQ or lower PP, AXs and/or call a smallish raise.

[NormanHaupt]

Mantis666 said:

Let me get this right.Limp in with QQ or lower PP, AXs and/or call a smallish raise.

I agree with bauer above, chasing flushes seem to get you in chip trouble. You gonna call a dollar bet from a stack of 40? What happens when your flush hits, and your implied odds go to 0 because he knows what you were chasing? Implied odds suck on flushes- entirely too obvious.

[SuM827]

NormanHaupt said:

Mantis666 said:

Let me get this right.Limp in with QQ or lower PP, AXs and/or call a smallish raise.

I agree with bauer above, chasing flushes seem to get you in chip trouble. You gonna call a dollar bet from a stack of 40? What happens when your flush hits, and your implied odds go to 0 because he knows what you were chasing? Implied odds suck on flushes- entirely too obvious.

Um, the point is the game is so bad your opponents won't even know there was a flush on the board 50% of the time and most of the other 50% they won't care.

[PrtyPSux]

Smash's strategy WILL work, guaranteed, now the amount of money to be made while using it Im not sure will be the maximum though. I used to play very tight like smash suggests but once I had a little taste of what being a maniac feels like I LOVED IT...I'm not sure if my strat is correct but the way I play is definately not boring at all. I was actually gonna post some hands when I found time to play NL because i wanted to see what you guys thought.. here is the base of it: I look for a 5 or 6 handed table with the least average pot and I observe it for a few minutes, I then join and right off the bat I start bluffing very agressively,(I usually get away with it) my goal is to get caught at least once but not to lose what I bought in for, once I get caught I reload, and just play AGRESSIVE with hands that I would call raises with, like 67s AJ blah blah blah.. (the trick is not to call raises, you gotta learn to fold AQ to a raise) once the table sees what you are doing you play every good hand as if you were bluffing, overbetting the pot w/ trips, moving all in for $40 with the nuts on a five or 10 dollar pot. I guarantee you will get paid off, several times. I guess you gotta think all the time and thats why its not boring to me, Im thinking what I did in the past and what he will think that I have. The point is that If you try to turn naturally tight passive players into loose agressive, they wont be able to convert, when I they figure out that Im seeing a flop on %55 of my hands and Im raising every time I go into a flop, there will be 3 or 4 callers to raised flops, and when you make your hand they will call to the river.,,This is an example of tight players playing loose: (to an extreme)A dude sits down at the 6 handed table and raises his good hands for $3 in a .25/.50 NL game, a guy says " stop raising so much or go play higher limits" so I tell him that from now on Im gonna raise $3 every hand,,so I do and the next five hands everyone folds and I show rags ,,finally a guy goes all in and I obviously fold..I stop raising every hand, but everytime I did raise I raised $3 suddenly everyone starts calling my $3 dlr raises, and I win a few pots and lose some, then I get 88 and I hit my set with 3 ppl in the pot ($9) there is an A on board and now for a guy to protect his hand he has to raise around 7, I call, on the turn he raises 20, and I call, then the river he checks and I go all in for 20 more, hes obviously not folding so he shows AK and won big..another thing is being able to make good laydowns, If you have your opponent on a draw, and that draw falls, fold if he makes a reasonable bet...sinse I play soo many hands I realize that some might be dominated, so i let them go..I dont recommend this to ANY new player, I only think it works If you can really understand the game and your opponents, also if you are willing to risk alot..One bad thing about the maniac strategy is that If I lose I lose big because I tilt horribly, so I play even looser and try to "catch up". This is a bad leak in my game, but I think that if I do tilt from now on, moving to a ring game and using smash's strategy would be the perfect solution..Anyway I would like to know what u guys think about it, I know smash is going to say that Ive only won in the past because I got lucky, but I think its because I really out play the other players (if I raise with 89s and the flop comes 998 I still have to get my opponent to pay me, the diference between getting lucky and skill is that I can fold when the board is 8 9 a j, and my opponents can't)...Ill try to post some hands as soon as I play some NL , Ive been playing a lot of Limit lately, but i am very interested in your opinions..