Raising Standards Preflop

[simo_8ball 1]

Suppose you have a hand like [ 5 6 7 8 ] and a couple of players limp in. Would you normally call or raise? Why?How about [ A Q J T ]? Etc.I like building pots early with speculative hands in general. I prefer playing pots heads up and three way rather than five/six way. If someone raises in mid position I will happily reraise with a wide range (perhaps too wide). Many players refuse to raise preflop without a premium hand in omaha, and some will never reraise regardless of their hand.I ask because in the 'What To Do' thread below, after 3 limpers Bud limps with [ 7 9 8 J ]. I would normally (say 2/3 of the time) be raising there.Discuss.

[BudBundy 0]

Discuss.

I agree.I like raising preflop especially in position but i end up screwing up.I am going to Paris tomorrow for the new year celebration but i will read the discussion when i come back next week.^^^^^^^^^^ Irrelevant brag line but I am paying for the trip with omaha money

[simo_8ball 1]

i will read the discussion when i come back next week.

You do realise that this forum recently has been basically us two and a couple of occasional visitors, right?

I am paying for the trip with omaha money

Nicely done.I've probably played about 2k hands in the last 3 months. 1500 of them have come in the last 10 days because I'm on a winter break from University and I have some free time. I really don't play enough.

[meservery 0]

Suppose you have a hand like [ 5 6 7 8 ] and a couple of players limp in. Would you normally call or raise? Why?

Call. Although lately I have been considering raising here if on the button.

How about [ A Q J T ]? Etc.

Call. I haven't been raising with any hand preflop. I find that I won't get too involved if the flop misses me since I haven't built a big pot preflop.My first answer sort of contradicts my second... but whatever.

[Wingman008 0]

Suppose you have a hand like [ 5 6 7 8 ] and a couple of players limp in. Would you normally call or raise? Why?How about [ A Q J T ]? Etc.I like building pots early with speculative hands in general. I prefer playing pots heads up and three way rather than five/six way. If someone raises in mid position I will happily reraise with a wide range (perhaps too wide). Many players refuse to raise preflop without a premium hand in omaha, and some will never reraise regardless of their hand.I ask because in the 'What To Do' thread below, after 3 limpers Bud limps with [ 7 9 8 J ]. I would normally (say 2/3 of the time) be raising there.Discuss.

I raise and reraise both of them since we have at least one suited in each of them, it's when we don't have suited or ds that I begin to start limping as well.And boo. I have been here for...a week. Do I not count?

[simo_8ball 1]

And boo. I have been here for...a week. Do I not count?

Give it a couple of weeks and you'll be part of the furniture. Really, for the last few months there has been very little traffic in this forum, and it just seems like the same pattern with every thread.I'll give you props for having 40% of your posts in omaha though.

[Kendren 1]

I used to be here all the time, I'm like a bad omaha injury. I just keep coming back.And my problem is WAAAAYYY to much passivity preflop. I like to play mostly postflop, and I'll call most every hand I want to play to see one. I'll limp a hand like QQJT ss middle ppos to see a flop against 4-5 players. Maybe I should listen to you guys more and start raising a wider range.EDIT: I also play many more tournaments than cash games, and that has colored my thinking more than a little bit. Raising in EP-MP in the first 2-3 levels of a PLO tourney seems to have the effect of just bleeding your chips off faster.

[simo_8ball 1]

In a tournament I am much more in favour of passive play preflop. The reason being that you usually have less than 50 blinds after a the first couple of levels of the tourney. If you start with 1500, by the time the blinds get to 25/50 you are down to 30xbb.In a cash game stacks are often in excess of 150xbb, so increasing the pot preflop is far more feasible.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

My raising standards are CO and Button, especially 6-handed.

[simo_8ball 1]

My raising standards are CO and Button, especially 6-handed.

Care to explain why?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Suppose you have a hand like [ 5 6 7 8 ] and a couple of players limp in. Would you normally call or raise? Why?How about [ A Q J T ]? Etc.I like building pots early with speculative hands in general. I prefer playing pots heads up and three way rather than five/six way. If someone raises in mid position I will happily reraise with a wide range (perhaps too wide). Many players refuse to raise preflop without a premium hand in omaha, and some will never reraise regardless of their hand.I ask because in the 'What To Do' thread below, after 3 limpers Bud limps with [ 7 9 8 J ]. I would normally (say 2/3 of the time) be raising there.Discuss.

The first hand benefits more from thinning the field than the second, which will make the nuts a lot when it hits. I might raise with them both, but I like to induce a fold from the folding sort of people with the first.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Care to explain why?

Advantages:- You can put lots of pressure on villains- You can win by bluffing or a real hand- No one can put you on a hand- Many players will lower their standards against you after they get to know you. If you flop well you are targeting their whole stacks- You can buy free cards. Say you continue betting flop, most players will just call if they have something, if you hit some gins and suck them out, they will go crazy and you can butcher them more- It is fun and challenging, but more importantly, good money investment opportunities.- it's much easier to read them. When they call you or raise you, they will usually ahead of you (for decent players).Disadvantages:- higher swing which can be stressful if you can't handle it wellBad players will eventually lose their money to you. Good players will tighten up against you and when they call you they will have you beat most of the time.That doesn't mean you need to do it all the time, you can switch gear and throw some decent players off balance.Oh, another reason is you are creating a pot preflop already, when it favors you can win more. When it doesn't you can fold easily, yes that requires decipline and experiences from you to know when to fold your hands. The point is to lose a little, to steal a little, but to win a lot.That's all I can think of right now.

[benhoug 0]

I'm likely calling w/ the first hand, and raising the 2nd. I may mix it up, but that's probably my standard line.

[Wingman008 0]

In a tournament I am much more in favour of passive play preflop. The reason being that you usually have less than 50 blinds after a the first couple of levels of the tourney. If you start with 1500, by the time the blinds get to 25/50 you are down to 30xbb.In a cash game stacks are often in excess of 150xbb, so increasing the pot preflop is far more feasible.

While I understand that you want to get your hand in with the best hand, in the early levels don't we want to win the most to give us the best chance of winning?And if so, wouldn't playing our tophands aggresively be the best idea?

[simo_8ball 1]

While I understand that you want to get your hand in with the best hand, in the early levels don't we want to win the most to give us the best chance of winning?And if so, wouldn't playing our tophands aggresively be the best idea?

Playing top hands aggressively is fine in pretty much any situation. I am in general referring to DS connectors and other speculative hands.

[SCS 0]

Suppose you have a hand like [ 5 6 7 8 ] and a couple of players limp in. Would you normally call or raise? Why?How about [ A Q J T ]? Etc.I like building pots early with speculative hands in general. I prefer playing pots heads up and three way rather than five/six way. If someone raises in mid position I will happily reraise with a wide range (perhaps too wide). Many players refuse to raise preflop without a premium hand in omaha, and some will never reraise regardless of their hand.I ask because in the 'What To Do' thread below, after 3 limpers Bud limps with [ 7 9 8 J ]. I would normally (say 2/3 of the time) be raising there.Discuss.

1st hand - If raising will knock out most of the limpers and get us heads up, than I think raising has a lot of advantages. If, however the limpers will call or reraise a lot of late position raises, than I'd rather just call and see a flop.2nd hand - Since I'm drawing to the nuts this hand, I want as many players in the pot as possible to pay me off. If raising here will knock out these players than I'd prefer calling.

[BudBundy 0]

Let's say we raised preflop with these hands. Are we ever folding to re -raise preflop? I think it must be illegal not to see a flop with these hands(It probably is in USA tho) but lets say we raise, a few callers and a re-raiser then what?

[BudBundy 0]

CryptologicPot Limit Omaha Ring gameBlinds: $0.15/$0.257 playersConverterPre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with 6 7 5 8 UTG calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, [color:#cc0000]Hero raises to $1.4[/color], SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, CO folds.Flop: A 2 J ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.Turn: 6 ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.River: J ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.Results:Final pot: $4.7Maybe i should have made a move on flop or river but its still difficult to play these hands when they miss the flop.

[simo_8ball 1]

I make love for the gamb00l. Here is an example of why:

Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose  tie  %tie	 EV5s 4s  7c  6c  215197  43.04  284803  56.96	0  0.00  0.430Ac Ah  Jh  Th  158639  31.73  340734  68.15  627  0.13  0.318As Kd  Qd  Kh  125537  25.11  373836  74.77  627  0.13  0.252

As long as one flush draw is live you're golden against high cards.(I REALLY want an omaha version of PokerStove)

[Wingman008 0]

CryptologicPot Limit Omaha Ring gameBlinds: $0.15/$0.257 playersConverterPre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with 6 7 5 8 UTG calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, [color:#cc0000]Hero raises to $1.4[/color], SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, CO folds.Flop: A 2 J ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.Turn: 6 ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.River: J ($4.7, 3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.Results:Final pot: $4.7Maybe i should have made a move on flop or river but its still difficult to play these hands when they miss the flop.

If we miss the flop, shouldn't we be playing C/F here? Even if there is checking all around it's likely that they have you on high card alone. And what happens if you try to make a move and they call? Aren't we only getting called by hands that beat us. (i.e Everything)

[BudBundy 0]

If we miss the flop, shouldn't we be playing C/F here? Even if there is checking all around it's likely that they have you on high card alone. And what happens if you try to make a move and they call? Aren't we only getting called by hands that beat us. (i.e Everything)

Sometimes against right opponents we can represent aces and bet on flop.

[Fourputt 0]

If we miss the flop, shouldn't we be playing C/F here? Even if there is checking all around it's likely that they have you on high card alone. And what happens if you try to make a move and they call? Aren't we only getting called by hands that beat us. (i.e Everything)

I agree. Even as a new Omaha player, I don't see this one as hard to play. You have no hand at all, so check - fold strikes me as the only option.... any J, A, or PP higher than 6 beats you.

[simo_8ball 1]

I agree. Even as a new Omaha player, I don't see this one as hard to play. You have no hand at all, so check - fold strikes me as the only option.... any J, A, or PP higher than 6 beats you.

The key here is that we can represent a set. Noone can call on the flop without a flush draw, 345 or a set/AJ. I don't mind leading 2/3 pot on the flop, but it depends on the opponents.

[Fourputt 0]

Sometimes against right opponents we can represent aces and bet on flop.

Possible, but it can be awfully hard to bluff most opponents in Omaha. It's more likely to just get expensive. IMO, he got dealt a good starting hand, missed the flop, and for me, it isn't the time to blow a chunk of my stack on a shakey bluff. I've hit big before on the flop and checked it down just hoping that the other guy would hit enough to bet the turn or river and give me a little bit for my good hand. This is one of thouse hands where I think it's better to win a small pot than lose a big one. The post never does tell us if his 6's held up.