53 replies to this topic

[NormanHaupt]

Okay, I'ven oticed this, A LOT. people limping AA, KK, AK to attract more fish. They've caught me on it. I have KQ and flop the K and I've lost a ton of mony to this strategy.Does it really pay off? Has anyone crunched the numbers? I personally seem to pay these off A TON.

[AK33]

Personally I don't think it's a wise play in a cash game unless you are UTG and are reasonably sure someone will raise if you are at an aggressive table. That is the only time I would do it. The past few times I've gotten AA it always seems to be UTG but I still raise because most of time the table is too passive. I am not sure how you would figure the odds because you'd have to simulate AA or KK against a number or random hands and some decent hands like JT or Q9 for those who limp in. If you are giving a number of players an opportunity to out draw you it is the worst thing you could do. I could see limping in on the button if everyone folds to you but there is no way I would limp in with such a strong hand in middle or late position with a few limpers already in the pot.Tournaments are a different story somewhat, players only come in with good to great hands especially late in a tournament but if I noticed somone limping in early in the late stages of a tournament I would definitely put them on a hand. ~Slick~

[MarionSauce]

I think that is really unwise because in a much larger pool, your AA will get outdrawn easily, and since most people overplay AA, that equals major losses. I always raise preflop, just so I don't have to whine about losing to 2-5 later.

[woutoR]

limping with AA, KK, AK is the worst thing you can do

[Rocketwadster]

limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing. UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise. Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD. ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink:

[NormanHaupt]

But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2 hours in a session

[holman3rd]

Rocketwadster said:

limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing. UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise. Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD. ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink:

I like to limp with AA in the SB when it's folded to me. As you all know, Aces play much better against few opponents. I like this play against aggressive players especially, since they will basically bet for me.In the BB I'll tend to call a SB raise preflop when heads up. Note that in both of these situations, I'm not saying that I ALWAYS play like that. If I did, an aware player would realize that if I raised in the SB (when folded to me), it meant I did not have AA.Othere than these particular situations, I tend to raise with AA. However, I do occassionaly limp when UTG, for example, to mix up my game.

[creepy20]

limping with AA,KK, are such bad moves. You are just asking for somebody to draw out on you. most of the tables i play at 40 to 50% of the people are seeing the flop if there was no raise...and if its only a little raise...most people who limped are going to call cold. So limping with those hands is a bad play I think. You should only limp in early position hoping to get raised so you can reraise ( assuming its an aggressive table with a lot of preflop raises)...if you know a lot of people are limping then you better put in a good raise to get those suited middle connectors out of there. Are you calling all in with top pair second best kicker??....you should probably throw it away thinking somebody hit trips or got a lucky flop with 2 pair. I don't like calling all ins with KQ when all I have is top pair. Wait for a better spot. just my thoughts

[chrisuk_sw]

The only times I limp/smooth call with AA/KK is when I'm playing heads up, or in this specific situation:- its late on in a NL tournament and the blinds are so high there's usually only 2 players to the flop- someone in EP/MP has put in a significant raise preflop and I have position

[Erudis]

limping from time to time with AA, KK, AK isn't some cardinal sin (not sure if OP was referring to limit or NL; what I have to say applies to NL). in fact, i recommend that you do it every now and then (i do). the key to playing this way, however, is that you really need to be a good post-flop player and know when you're beat and get off the hand. if you have a hard time folding AA or KK, for example, then without a doubt you should be raising and playing them the standard way every time. however, if you're a good enough post-flop player, limp with them once in a while. what you're trying to do in these cases is catch someone overplaying top pair against your AA, or charge people if they're on a draw. if you limp with them, do not get married to your hand or you're gonna get smoked.

[MasterLJ]

You can't really generalize limping monsters. Poker comes in many flavors. I agree that in limit, limping monsters is a horrible idea. In NL it's slightly less bad, but still probably bad.What if you're heads up? Just about the WORST thing you can do is raise with rockets. Why? Because if they have a nice starting hand, they WILL raise you, then you can go from there. There's no point in just stealing the blinds with rockets heads-up. You have any hand dominated 5 to 1 pre-flop. If you get your Ace and they got no piece of the flop (no flush or str draw), they are drawing dead.It's a rare case, but some people make a living playing heads up =P.

[Briguy]

NormanHaupt said:

But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2  hours in a session

I immediately make note of the "premmie limpers" the first time they catch me (or someone else at the table) with it. They never catch me twice. It may work against people who don't take notes, but I doubt that it earns as much money as raising (or limp-raising) those hands, in the long run.

[DCWildcat]

holman3rd said:

Rocketwadster said:

limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing.  UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise.  Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD.  ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink:

I like to limp with AA in the SB when it's folded to me. As you all know, Aces play much better against few opponents. I like this play against aggressive players especially, since they will basically bet for me.In the BB I'll tend to call a SB raise preflop when heads up. Note that in both of these situations, I'm not saying that I ALWAYS play like that. If I did, an aware player would realize that if I raised in the SB (when folded to me), it meant I did not have AA.Othere than these particular situations, I tend to raise with AA. However, I do occassionaly limp when UTG, for example, to mix up my game.

I agree. I'd be slightly more prone to limping with AK--it's a drawing hand anyway. But all of tha hands go down reaaallllll fast in value with more than a caller or two.

[jack24bauer24]

There's a huge difference between limping with aa or kk in an NL as opposed to limit game.

[Nutcracker]

Quote

I always raise preflop, just so I don't have to whine about losing to 2-5 later.

How about when you raise preflop and get beat by 2-5 anyway ~

[Erudis]

in that case, we all whine away =) (we, of course, aren't mad at the player who beat us - we're happy to have him in the hand! - we're mad at the cards for not letting us get paid off)

[HtotheNootch]

NormanHaupt said:

But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2  hours in a session

Because you're aggressive. However, in the long run consistent limping in LHE will lose. Here's one I've gotten caught with on more than one occasion. I get K-Q in the cutoff. I'm first in the pot so I raise. I get two callers. I hit a K or Q on the flop. I bet and just get one caller. The turn is a blank. I bet again. Get called. Another blank on the river. I bet, and now get raised. What's he got? AA

[NormanHaupt]

HtotheNootch said:

NormanHaupt said:

But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2  hours in a session

Because you're aggressive. However, in the long run consistent limping in LHE will lose. Here's one I've gotten caught with on more than one occasion. I get K-Q in the cutoff. I'm first in the pot so I raise. I get two callers. I hit a K or Q on the flop. I bet and just get one caller. The turn is a blank. I bet again. Get called. Another blank on the river. I bet, and now get raised. What's he got? AA

Yup, just happened to me. Playing A7s. Flop came down 2 of my color with an A in the middle.I bet out because I'm way out of position. Figured someone may have my A beat, but maybe not. Get a couple callers, turn is a J of another suit. I bet out again, two folds, get to the river.I hit my seven on the river for two pair. not the nut flush ,but it'll do. I bet out, get reraised. Did he hit two pair..? no flush on the board, doesn't fit into a straight.. I reraise it.He hit trip AAA.Now, to mirror that example, I *JUST* had AA in the BB while writing this pot. UTG raises, MP2 and 3 call two cold, folds to me in the BB. I make it one more to go for them and they all call.Flop is JT3, JT suited. I bet out again, UTG Calls, MP2 raises, MP3 drops. Now i'm curious what kind of hand he has. He could be on the nutflush draw since I don't have the A of the suited cards. So I reraise once more for information. UTG dives out of the way, he calls.J , T , 3 turns into a 7 . I bet out, again, and he reraises me. Okay, at this point I'm pretty sure he hit two pair, or maybe his AJ hit. Over here people raise with everything so I commit myself to call it down now.River is a 2 , to which I check call.He flips over KQs. So this leaves me wondering if its really a smart idea to limp AA afterall, so its easier to toss it away. I wonder if I should have been calling those bets.

[Smasharoo]

Does it really pay off?No.Limp-reraising onthe other hand is often a good idea, but if you end up seeing a flop for the limp you're unhappy and losing money.

[pockets]

DCWildcat said:

I'd be slightly more prone to limping with AK--it's a drawing hand anyway.

Take that thought. Think the opposite. Now you're correct.