Kqs Against A Mouse

[Mattnxtc 0]

Villian: 15/5.8/2Full Tilt PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $0.25/$0.59 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $8.75Hero: $21.65MP1: $30.40MP2: $8.65MP3: $17.90CO: $49.95Button: $9.80SB: $9.65BB: $48.05Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with UTG folds, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.Flop: :D (4.4SB, 2 players)BB bets, Hero ?????Against somebody this tight whats my plan for this hand?

[Moneyball16 0]

Whats the sample size like here? Have any reads besides stats?Tough spot.

[Actuary 3]

That's a solid TAG, not a mouse by any stretch.I flat call flop and raise the turnI fold to a turn 3-bet.if he plays very straight forward you could raise the flpp and fold turn UI.

[antistuff 0]

i always play possum against these kind of players. i would just call him down. it seems to work well for me since they tend to be very prone to making incredibly stupid river bets when its obvious you are going to call and have them beat.

[Actuary 3]

i always play possum against these kind of players. i would just call him down. it seems to work well for me since they tend to be very prone to making incredibly stupid river bets when its obvious you are going to call and have them beat.

I like your idea.I'm likely only folding worse hands drawing to 4 or 2 outs by raising the turnAK won't fold, usually..or ever.And in case he gets out of line, I don't have to fold

[antistuff 0]

That's a solid TAG, not a mouse by any stretch.I flat call flop and raise and the turnI fold to a turn 3-bet.if he plays very straight forward you could raise the flpp and fold turn UI.

maybe it was just a small sample but those stats look pretty weak tight to me. this is why descriptions are so much more usefull than stats.

[Actuary 3]

maybe it was just a small sample but those stats look pretty weak tight to me. this is why descriptions are so much more usefull than stats.

He's marginally aggressive pre and post according to default rules.5.8% Raisng > 5%and 2 is bottom end of aggressive post.THe preflop raise from BB likely means AK, AQs, JJ+, imo.

[antistuff 0]

He's marginally aggressive pre and post according to default rules.5.8% Raisng > 5%and 2 is bottom end of aggressive post.THe preflop raise from BB likely means AK, AQs, JJ+, imo.

i wonder if you could just fold the flop then? like almost seriously...a tight player threebets an utg raise out of the bb. whats his range? he aint got 9s. against the range you gave above i think you're a serious dog on that flop. of course i'de need to have played 1000 hands with the guy to do something like this confidentely, but just food for thought.

[Mattnxtc 0]

that sample is over 411 handsactuary ur correct that his current status is that of a tight aggressive but he ranges back and forth between the that and and a weak player...He was a mouse when the hand in question though and probably had this rating for the first 300ish hands i played with him

[Mattnxtc 0]

i wonder if you could just fold the flop then? like almost seriously...a tight player threebets an utg raise out of the bb. whats his range? he aint got 9s. against the range you gave above i think you're a serious dog on that flop. of course i'de need to have played 1000 hands with the guy to do something like this confidentely, but just food for thought.

this is why i was posting as this was my very thought. Against somebody this tight who 3bet preflop...do i beat anything in his range on this flop?

[Zach6668 513]

that sample is over 411 handsactuary ur correct that his current status is that of a tight aggressive but he ranges back and forth between the that and and a weak player...He was a mouse when the hand in question though and probably had this rating for the first 300ish hands i played with him

I would really try to get away from using the auto-rate picture that shows up. They aren't necessarily wrong, but if you don't rely on them, you can get much better raeds on your own, imo. Don't just go with whatever icon he happens to be at the time of the hand.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I would really try to get away from using the auto-rate picture that shows up. They aren't necessarily wrong, but if you don't rely on them, you can get much better raeds on your own, imo. Don't just go with whatever icon he happens to be at the time of the hand.

I dont disagree with you but i was tryin to give a stereotype to this guy without biasing yall decisions on the hand. From PT the worst hand he raised was kqo and that was on the button against a 1 loose limper. Otherwise his pfr's were ak+.

[Actuary 3]

if you can fold this flop then don't call the preflop raise.

[Mattnxtc 0]

if you can fold this flop then don't call the preflop raise.

So do yall think calling down is best against this player? or something like raise/fold to 3bet?

[Zach6668 513]

if you can fold this flop then don't call the preflop raise.

Ok, here's my plan for the hand.We say his range is JJ+, AKo, AKs?He would c-bet with any of these.I think we call the flop, we can reevalute on the turn. Would this opponent continue to fire on the turn with JJ and QQ? If not, than we can fold the turn UI.If he will bet each street until he is raised, then we should call down.I like folding the turn if he is tight postflop. Usually if he bets the turn, we're behind, but a lot of players will still fire with QQ or JJ. If we call the turn, we have to call the river.- Zach

[Actuary 3]

Zach,I've wondered more lately as I imagine becoming a better/more creative player..about some "standard" plays I make.I raise TT preflop and get 3-bet by Button ( say 22 / 10 / 2 type )Flop comes J47r.In past I"m usually not seeing showdown.I wonder how many times he has AK and bets turn after I c/r flop and he 3-bets me (often, I fodl to the 3 bet, obv)Or sometimes I bet/fold flop. (not as often)You said something that I've been thinking latelyOf course you never have pot odds HU to draw to a set on the turn, so no one ever says: Call turn, fold river UI. But what if you factor in the times your opponent wil stop firing with just overs? Is it ever ok to call turn and then fold river UI when you have horrible oddsEssentially you are using the info of his river bet to detemine, that, yeah, your TT is beat.Of course, only OOP, would I consider this.Also makes me wonder how many times any one folds the river thinking the same thing if I keep betting my overs. I used to think "Why call turn and fold river" (as some I know have done). I hope this makes sense.Last day is tomorrow heere...and I"m biiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Zach6668 513]

Actuary,That's pretty much what I was trying to get at.However, I was also at work, and I'm not allowed to be on the internet, lol.

[antistuff 0]

Ok, here's my plan for the hand.We say his range is JJ+, AKo, AKs?He would c-bet with any of these.I think we call the flop, we can reevalute on the turn. Would this opponent continue to fire on the turn with JJ and QQ? If not, than we can fold the turn UI.If he will bet each street until he is raised, then we should call down.I like folding the turn if he is tight postflop. Usually if he bets the turn, we're behind, but a lot of players will still fire with QQ or JJ. If we call the turn, we have to call the river.- Zach

players that tight preflop are almost never tight postflop. once they take the lead they will just fire and fire and fire always, which isnt such a bad thing for them usually since they are ahead preflop so often how many bad bets can then really make post flop? but you can use it to your advantage by turning into a calling station against them in situations exactly like this.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Zach,I've wondered more lately as I imagine becoming a better/more creative player..about some "standard" plays I make.I raise TT preflop and get 3-bet by Button ( say 22 / 10 / 2 type )Flop comes J47r.In past I"m usually not seeing showdown.I wonder how many times he has AK and bets turn after I c/r flop and he 3-bets me (often, I fodl to the 3 bet, obv)Or sometimes I bet/fold flop. (not as often)You said something that I've been thinking latelyOf course you never have pot odds HU to draw to a set on the turn, so no one ever says: Call turn, fold river UI. But what if you factor in the times your opponent wil stop firing with just overs? Is it ever ok to call turn and then fold river UI when you have horrible oddsEssentially you are using the info of his river bet to detemine, that, yeah, your TT is beat.Of course, only OOP, would I consider this.Also makes me wonder how many times any one folds the river thinking the same thing if I keep betting my overs. I used to think "Why call turn and fold river" (as some I know have done). I hope this makes sense.Last day is tomorrow heere...and I"m biiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeee!

complete generalization on my part but i have found that if someone calls the turn with some sort of made hand...they probably call the river 90% of the time unless some absolutely brutal river card hits and even then they are more likely to call.

[Actuary 3]

I wrote so much I did not make my point clearly.I'm actually talking about calling turn and folding river UI when we are OOP with something like 88 against a 3 better on a non A/K board.

[Mattnxtc 0]

I wrote so much I did not make my point clearly.I'm actually talking about calling turn and folding river UI when we are OOP with something like 88 against a 3 better on a non A/K board.

o ok, makes sense...yeah this is a tricky one that i have run into a lot more on ftp...I personally have been going on recent history against that opponent and what i perceive is his image of me.

[Zach6668 513]

complete generalization on my part but i have found that if someone calls the turn with some sort of made hand...they probably call the river 90% of the time unless some absolutely brutal river card hits and even then they are more likely to call.

Which is exactly why Actuary is saying call turn/fold river. If he expects us to call, than if he bets, then he has to have us beat, right? It may not apply specifically to this hand, but theoretically, it's interesting.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Which is exactly why Actuary is saying call turn/fold river. If he expects us to call, than if he bets, then he has to have us beat, right? It may not apply specifically to this hand, but theoretically, it's interesting.

I think this is true though we have to assume hes a thinking player...there are plenty of people who will keep betting ak high or aq high...so we need to look at the aggression of the players...theres definately some players that i can think of that i dont mind calling down with pkt 10s on a jack high board..and there are some others that i am much more hesitant against calling/raising agianst