Lederrer And Daniel Dont Like Each Other (long + Old)

[Chaserjim 0]

Taken from RGP (Old but interesting read) Daniel, I would first like to say that, in the past, I have always rooted for you. I thought you had the kind of engaging personality and charisma that the game of poker needs. Sadly, however, you have allowed your desperate need for public recognition, both for you and your close friends, to turn you into a mean and vindictive person. You try your best to keep this from you adoring fans, but tourney regulars know better. My motivations for making this post are many, and I think I should detail them now. As most RGPers know, your post from a couple of days ago was about my sister Annie Duke. You claim you wanted to keep her name out of it. This is a complete lie. First, you knew I would figure out who the post was about. You also knew that a lot of other high limit players would be able to figure it out. You thought it would be cute to continue your smear campaign against my sister just under the radar. Then in one of your follow up posts to my "Grow up" thread, you wrote, "The same person that will tell a player NOT to educate the other players, then five minutes later ask the player she told not to say anything a poker question?" The use of the female pronoun seems intentional. I can only conclude that you really did want to publicly embarrass her. But this post is only a culmination of a summer full of public attacks on my sister, a campaign that has hurt her deeply. My sister has been inclined to not fight back. But I can not sit idly by any longer. You have also made it clear that you are willing to damage your own reputation to bring Annie down. I will get into your reasons for this later. I know that if I can diminish you in any way in the eyes of the public, you will feel personally diminished. Sad but true. For me, violence is not an option, so the only thing I can do to make you pay something for the pain you have caused my sister is to make the public aware of your true nature. I spoke to you privately about this issue, but the smear campaign has only intensified. Also, though I admit that I was extremely steamed when I made my post two days ago, the last couple of days have only brought me down to a simmer. I need to make this post to feel better. I don't like feeling angry all the time. Your reasons for going after my sister's reputation as a poker player are obvious to anyone who knows you and many others who don't. First, you simply feel that the only female poker player who deserves any media attention is Jennifer Harman. Second, you just don't like my sister. There is something about her personality that rubs you the wrong way. I can't blame you for this and would never hold that against you. We all have those people we just can't get along with. Your obsession with the public's perception of Jennifer's place among the top women players combined with your general dislike of Annie has caused you to lose all objectivity where she is concerned. If we only look for the bad in people, whether it be their conduct or their play, there will always be something to find. Nobody is perfect. But this obsession is causing great harm to Annie, and it needs to stop. I could almost stomach the attacks on her play if that was all you had been doing. But you have gotten really nasty and personal. You have been heard at tournaments, where Annie is not present, referring to her as "Annie Puke." You have also complained that she doesn't have any nice clothes and she looks disgusting. I am sure your wardrobe would be just amazing after going through four pregnancies in six years. This is grade school stuff on your part, but it still hurts. When I ask your friends about why you have gone berserk on this Annie thing, they just shake their heads and can't really explain it. I would be surprised if any of your friends think this has been a good thing for you to do. I would not have had to make this post if you had been even a little contrite in response to my post of two days ago. But, instead you showed your true colors. Your first response to me, at 5:42 P.M., went like this: "I just thought the post was funny. I didn't name any names did I? All that stuff REALLY happened. If anything, it's a good advertisement for the Bellagio game." We now know this wasn't the real reason for your post. You didn't want your adoring public to think that your post might have been mean spirited. But you couldn't stand it and 16 minutes later you posted: "One more thing 'the self proclaimed 'expert' deserves all the criticism the expert gets. The expert, is the same person that routinely takes part in all of the stupid conversation that goes on in those games. All of the, 'how bad does he play' talk. The expert deserves to hear some of that same criticism. If the expert were a gentle, nice person who wasn't so rude and obnoxious at the table, I never would have posted any of this stuff. The expert, is the same person that will look at your hole cards when out of a hand, but won't let you look at theirs. The same person that will tell a player NOT to educate the other players, then five minutes later ask the player she told not to say anything a poker question? The expert is a stuck up bully, that deserves everything the expert dishes out, ten fold." It was nice of you to call yourself on your own lie so quickly. I have also noticed a pattern where outrageous behavior is OK if it is you who does it. While drunk in a medium stakes poker game, you tried to snatch a player's toupee off his head. You then told him that he should get it washed. You now fondly recall this incident as funny, funny perhaps to you. Your repeated comments calling Henry Nowakowski an idiot during your final table WSOP web cast where uncalled for and colored by personal issues. These are just two events, but they show that personal attacks aren't just reserved for my sister. You seem to be able to justify any action toward someone if you personally dislike that person. I find this part of your personality quite distasteful. I also find it amusing to see how creative you have gotten at trying to call attention to your poker skills. You couldn't just come out and say, "Look at me! I have won 7 tournaments this year in only 13 final tables." So you did the next best thing. You wrote an analysis of the other top players, with special attention to their finishing skills, hoping that your adoring fans might look up your finishing record and drool. That these capsules about your colleagues might upset some of them was of little consequence. You'll do anything to further the Daniel legend. I am not trying to change you with this post, as I will never again have anything to do with you. I will, from now on, ignore you entire existence, unless, of course I am trying to bust you at the poker table. You have crossed the line, and I don't really care if you ever come back. Howard Lederer"Howard Lederer" <howa...@lvcm.com> wrote in message <news:6Oal9.81616$S32.5244010@news2.west.cox.net>... > Daniel, > I would first like to say that, in the past, I have always rooted for you. > I thought you had the kind of engaging personality and charisma that the > game of poker needs. Sadly, however, you have allowed your desperate need > for public recognition, both for you and your close friends, to turn you > into a mean and vindictive person. You try your best to keep this from you > adoring fans, but tourney regulars know better. DANIEL: Ok, 'tourney regulars?' Who exactly do you mean? Are you a tourney regular? > My motivations for making this post are many, and I think I should detail > them now. As most RGPers know, your post from a couple of days ago was > about my sister Annie Duke. You claim you wanted to keep her name out of > it. This is a complete lie. DANIEL: Only by your posting, did her name become clear. Had you not replied, the fact that I was referring to Annie's poor play on the night would have been known to only a select few. First, you knew I would figure out who the > post was about. DANIEL: Of course, but you already knew how I felt about your sister. I already told you that I didn't dislike you, but couldn't possibly deal with the behaviour of your sister. You were in my backyard after a party when I explained that to you. Your response was simply,"That's Annie". A reasonable response coming from her brother, that I understand, and don't blame you for. You have virtually no choice but to love her- I on the other hand, have every right and reason to think of her differently. Eventually, I decided that if that's Annie, well then I'm gald to hear it! If she was everthing I percieved her to be, and her only brother admitted to those faults, then I wanted absolutely nothing to do with her. You also knew that a lot of other high limit players woul> be able to figure it out. You thought it would be cute to continue your > smear campaign against my sister just under the radar. DANIEL: Honestly, I didn't care that much. I knew all along what I was risking by taking a stand against her, and was more than willing to suffer the consequences, whatever they may be. Then in one of your > follow up posts to my "Grow up" thread, you wrote, "The same person that > will tell a player NOT to educate the other players, then five minutes later > ask the player she told not to say anything a poker question?" The use of > the female pronoun seems intentional. DANIEL: I realize that, but I would swear that it was unintentional, not like it matters much at this point. It was only your replies, that prompted the obviousness of who the """expert""" was. I can only conclude that you really > did want to publicly embarrass her. But this post is only a culmination of > a summer full of public attacks on my sister, a campaign that has hurt her > deeply. My sister has been inclined to not fight back. But I can not sit > idly by any longer. DANIEL: Not fight back??? Oh please, you must be joking. That's hardly true, but I won't include examples that would 'out' innocent bystanders just to prove my point. She has been doing her fair share of smearing, and this I know for an absolute fact. > You have also made it clear that you are willing to damage your own > reputation to bring Annie down. I will get into your reasons for this > later. I know that if I can diminish you in any way in the eyes of the > public, you will feel personally diminished. Sad but true. DANIEL: I have made it clear for more than a year, that I will not sugarcoat my feelings about anybody. If I don't like someone- they'll now. I'm not interested in being a politician that puts on a happy face to get elected. If I can't stand sonebody, I feel NO shame in letting EVERYBODY know it. Of course, I'm the one who suffers the most from theses stands, but as I've said before, I'm more than willing to deal with the consequences. > For me, violence is not an option, so the only thing I can do to make you > pay something for the pain you have caused my sister is to make the public > aware of your true nature. DANIEL: Violence is not an option for me either, but apparantly that's not true of her husband who sent me a private e-mail. > Your reasons for going after my sister's reputation as a poker player are > obvious to anyone who knows you and many others who don't. First, you > simply feel that the only female poker player who deserves any media > attention is Jennifer Harman. DANIEL: Not true in the least! A reporter asked me for names of SUCCESSFUL female poker players in both tournaments and live play, and I replied with Kathy Liebert for tournaments (the most successful female tournament player 5 years running, and Jennifer Harman, the most successful,side game player currently). I also included, Susie Issacs (winner of two consecutive women's titles), Mimi Tran (an excellent high stakes hold'em player and tournament player). If I included Annie's name, I would have been lying. Second, you just don't like my sister. There > is something about her personality that rubs you the wrong way. I can't > blame you for this and would never hold that against you. We all have those > people we just can't get along with. DANIEL: This is true. From the day I met her when I was 22 years of age playing at the 4 Queens. She went OUT OF HER WAY to ridicule me and embarass me, despite the fact that she had no idea who I was. Calling me 'cupboy', criticizing my play, and overall making me, and all others not in the 'clique' feel unwelcome. Of course when I'd won some tournaments her attitude changed towards me... BZZZZT, too late. > Your obsession with the public's perception of Jennifer's place among the > top women players combined with your general dislike of Annie has caused you > to lose all objectivity where she is concerned. DANIEL: Obsession? Do YOU doubt the fact that she is the best female player in the world? If you do you'd be lying. She is the best female player I've ever seen. Allen Cunningham and Phil Ivey are the two best young players I've ever seen. John Hennighan, when playing his best, is the best player I've ever played with. Scotty Nguyen and John Juanda, are the best pure tournament players I've ever seen. TJ Cloutier, is the best no limit tournament player I've ever seen. Even you Howatd, are one of the best short-handed hold'em players I've ever played with.... These are not obsessions, they are opinions. If we only look for the bad > in people, whether it be their conduct or their play, there will always be > something to find. Nobody is perfect. But this obsession is causing great > harm to Annie, and it needs to stop. DANIEL: She's been causing harm to many (unchallenged) for years, and it's about time somebody said something about it. Do you REALLY think I'm alone in thinking that Annie is a horrible person to have in the poker room? I'd hate to mention names as it's uncalled for, but clearly YOU understand why she's so unbearable? > I could almost stomach the attacks on her play if that was all you had been > doing. But you have gotten really nasty and personal. You have been heard > at tournaments, where Annie is not present, referring to her as "Annie > Puke." DANIEL: Yes, and FOR THE RECORD, that name was originated by the MIRAGE dealers years ago. It was later coined by Sam Grizzle, after he beat her heads up and she cried to you on the phone about losing a hand she was a favorite in (this part is all second hand, I wasn't there). The Mirage dealers hated her so much, that they would routinely refer to her as "Annie Puke". You have also complained that she doesn't have any nice clothes and > she looks disgusting. DANIEL: No, I complained that she wears the SAME dirty clothes, day in and day out. That she wears no shoes and walks around the poker room, and then sits on her dirty, sweaty feet in the Bellagio poker room. Other people then have to sit on these chairs after she's stained them with athlete's foot over several hours. There are dress codes for poker rooms (no tank tops), well how much nastier can you get then urinated foot sweat soaked into $2000 chairs??? I am sure your wardrobe would be just amazing after > going through four pregnancies in six years. DANIEL: Well, I certainly wouldn't start picking the toejam from my feet and handling the cards, even if I had 15 kids. This is grade school stuff on > your part, but it still hurts. When I ask your friends about why you have > gone berserk on this Annie thing, they just shake their heads and can't > really explain it. I would be surprised if any of your friends think this > has been a good thing for you to do. DANIEL: I don't doubt it wasn't a 'good thing' for me to do. I'd likely be much better off keeping my opinions to myself, and 'worrying' about what others would think of me. I'm not worried. I am who I am, and those who don't like it... well there is little I can, or would want to do to change it. > I would not have had to make this post if you had been even a little > contrite in response to my post of two days ago. But, instead you showed > your true colors. Your first response to me, at 5:42 P.M., went like this: > "I just thought the post was funny. I didn't name any names did I? All > that stuff REALLY happened. If anything, it's a good advertisement for the > Bellagio game." DANIEL: Was it not? Did you read the four hands? If that wasn't a good advertisement for the game, I don't know what is.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

if it's old, *maybe* it's been brought up before? you know... every few months since inception?

[Oziumrules 0]

Where is that dead horse so we can beat it some more?

[OrzyVibe 0]

Isn't it common knowledge amongst those that have seen Annie Duke at the tables or know her that she's basically a b!tch? I don't blame Howard for defending her...he's her brother. And Daniel is very straight-forward...and probably 100% correct. Howard felt like he needed to do what he needed to do...same with Daniel. I can understand holding a bit of a grudge against someone who treated him like absolute crap and then tried to backtrack after he became a top player.

[usernametaken 0]

I know this is an old subject, but I fell totally out of the "loop." I heard of an incident between Daniel and Annie a few years ago(cant remember exactly what happened) but I would like to know, besides her being a nasty B1tch, why Daniel doesnt like her. thanks

[tobytobey 0]

On an unrelated note....Water is wet, the world is round, and this just in, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.We take you back to your scheduled programing.

[usernametaken 0]

you realize that you just wasted your own time and my times by creating that smart *** post. nevermind I might as well go tell that to a wall as much use as it would do.

[Dead Horse 0]

Where is that dead horse so we can beat it some more?

...................................

[mentallyretardedpear 0]

Annie Duke climbed into bed naked with me and stuck her penis into my back.... i was so upset i took 47 Nyquil non-drowsy capsules. Howard can i have 30k?

[zsta2k6 0]

On an unrelated note....Water is wet, the world is round, and this just in, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.We take you back to your scheduled programing.

wtf? I thought it was flat. That liar... my mom told me my dad fell of the side of the earth

[OrzyVibe 0]

Annie Duke climbed into bed naked with me and stuck her penis into my back.... i was so upset i took 47 Nyquil non-drowsy capsules. Howard can i have 30k?

Her penis is dirty like her feet....

[Chaserjim 0]

Annie Duke climbed into bed naked with me and stuck her penis into my back.... i was so upset i took 47 Nyquil non-drowsy capsules. Howard can i have 30k?

ROFL

[usernametaken 0]

Annie Duke climbed into bed naked with me and stuck her penis into my back.... i was so upset i took 47 Nyquil non-drowsy capsules. Howard can i have 30k?

I bet everyone here is gonna think thats so funny............................................................................................................NOTBorat

[quadaces 0]

...................................

Hanguk........is that you?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

you realize that you just wasted your own time and my times by creating that smart *** post. nevermind I might as well go tell that to a wall as much use as it would do.

Irony Alert.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Annie Duke climbed into bed naked with me and stuck her penis into my back.... i was so upset i took 47 Nyquil non-drowsy capsules. Howard can i have 30k?

POTD!

[Entrepeneur 0]

POTD!

I think that's "Captain" Annie Duke btwDitto on POTD!

[Dogpatch 2]

Ditto on POTD and Dead Horse, best new joke account?

[bengy3 0]

We landed on the moon!

[pocket_change 0]

If anyone knows where the original blog is that DN posted, can they post it? The one that's referred to where he cites hands from the big game, etc. .I guess I'm too lazy to look through three years of blogs while I'm at work ..

[king_tanner 84]

Fergalicious Definicious make the boys go loco

[Suited_Up 2]

God Dammit!

[Kid DynOmite 0]

We've got tonight! Who needs tomorrow? We've got tonight, babe. Why don't you stay?

[the shank 0]

DN got TOLD

[brvheart 1,752]

DN got TOLD

How are you not banned? j/s.