Wa/wb Or Am I Always Just Wb?

[Zach6668 513]

Absolute PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$49 playersConverterPre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with K K UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, 4 folds, Hero calls.Flop: J 6 A (11.5SB, 2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.Turn: 8 (6.75BB, 2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.River: 5 (8.75BB, 2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 10.75BBVillain is weird. At least mrdannyg tells me, as he was at the table as well. He is kinda weird. He does some weird stuff when facing 3 cold, or even 2 cold, at least in my experiences with him. His numbers seem decent, but his play is weird. 18/11/1.48 after 987 hands.I think my wa/wb question mostly has to do with the flop, once we pick up the nut draw on the turn, obv we don't fold. What about the river?

[Mattnxtc 0]

im not sure what defines "wierd" but what can you beat on the flop? queens are really the only hand you beat and he doesnt play it this way...river: even with the odds i just cant see you beating anything

[mrdannyg 274]

this opponent is very weird. AP is almost always HU or 3-way, and the guy is almost impossible to put on a hand. he makes tons of mistakes, but is so unpredictable/weird he's hard to outplay consistently.i play it the same, but i think that's wrong. this situation is so odd that i don't think metagame is a big issue. nevertheless, i don't see how we can find a fold on the flop, and we're certainly not folding the turn. by the river its at least 8 bets, and that's a lot to fold when we've played our hand slow.i may well c/r the flop or something and plan to fold the turn, but once i pick up the draw, i'm not going anywhere.

[Actuary 3]

b/f river > c/cunless he's weird enough to ever raise QQ/KK on the river.Lots of players would not bet the river w/o an Ace.But I'm never folding given all the QQ/KK combos

[Zach6668 513]

b/f river > c/cunless he's weird enough to ever raise QQ/KK on the river.Lots of players would not bet the river w/o an Ace.But I'm never folding given all the QQ/KK combos

Yeah, I thought that when playing. Standard wa/wb line is c/c, c/c, bet, but I really did not want to fold in this hand. I really wanted to see what he had, for info purposes.

[Actuary 3]

Yeah, I thought that when playing. Standard wa/wb line is c/c, c/c, bet, but I really did not want to fold in this hand. I really wanted to see what he had, for info purposes.

Would he ever raise a worse hand here?Did you want to see like AT and other yukky hands that might raise you?

[mrdannyg 274]

fwiw, despite this hand, and another where he was a $200+ pot, this player was down over $300 today, despite being a pretty standard 18/11. weird, because his AF is about 1 on every street, and yet every hand i find myself facing a bet i don't know what to do with.oh, and zach, i noticed your only defending your bb around 25-30% of the time. i think you might want to open this up a bit more, probably in the 30-40 range.

[Zach6668 513]

fwiw, despite this hand, and another where he was a $200+ pot, this player was down over $300 today, despite being a pretty standard 18/11. weird, because his AF is about 1 on every street, and yet every hand i find myself facing a bet i don't know what to do with.oh, and zach, i noticed your only defending your bb around 25-30% of the time. i think you might want to open this up a bit more, probably in the 30-40 range.

I knew blind play was one of my problems.Even though you have so many hands on me, I'll look up my overall numbers.Folded BB to steal: 70.59%.What kind of range do we defend with vs say an 11% pfr opening from the button? How does it change if the SB comes along? What's your 3-betting range?

[mrdannyg 274]

I knew blind play was one of my problems.Even though you have so many hands on me, I'll look up my overall numbers.Folded BB to steal: 70.59%.What kind of range do we defend with vs say an 11% pfr opening from the button? How does it change if the SB comes along? What's your 3-betting range?

i don't have that many hands on your actually. connection has been blabbing on me.check attempt to steal stats. if PAHUD works, use it. you can hover GT+ and get it too. even people with similar PFR stats sometimes vary a lot - from 20-40+ %.whether i just call or 3-bet depends on tendencies, table image, and whatever i feel like in terms of doing it with connectors and such. i'll c/r a lot of flops after calling a steal, so if i have a good read on how my opponent will act against a c/r, it really opens up my range.similarly, you'll want to notice how often you 3-bet, then villain raises the flop. some villains will do it 90% of the time, and some only when they hit.i find just calling and c/ring more effective than 3-betting, so long as you know whether they'll 3-bet a c/r liberally.SB coming along hugely opens up your range. you're now getting 5:1 preflop against a hand that probably isn't that strong, and you have position against the stronger hand.70% isn't a 'leak' IMO, just something a decent player can open up. your VPIP is still pretty low, so look for spots to get in. maybe 3-betting more often, raising very marginal hands to isolate against weak limpers, opening up steal and LP raises against weak blinds, etc.

[Zach6668 513]

Ty, I've been working on pretty much exactly what you've mentioned.Trying to get the VPIP up a bit, etc.Going well so far.

[beans422 0]

It's hard to ask this question to the forum since you're basically on a read here and we can't say whether your read was on or not. However, I like b/f > c/c the flop.

[Mattnxtc 0]

this situation appears very player/read dependent but any thought to a c/r on the flop if his range is that wide? or is he unable to release hands where he is obviously beat?

[iggymcfly 0]

Hand looks standard, especially against a strange or tricky opponent. It's perfectly reasonable that QQ could value-bet the river thinking that you'd raise if you had an ace, so you must be holding something like KJ.

[Actuary 3]

It's hard to ask this question to the forum since you're basically on a read here and we can't say whether your read was on or not.

Not really.Credibility Theory will guide you in this play.You make the suggestion based on your experince and knowledge of play at that level combined with all you've heard from others.OTherwise it gets a lot like the NL forums where everyone goes: "Well, if that was your read, nice play!"

[Zach6668 513]

Ok.Villain capped PF with AJ sooted....LoooooooL.gg me.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Ok.Villain capped PF with AJ sooted....LoooooooL.gg me.

is that the edge of his capping range? that wouldnt be all to weird...definately a lot looser than recommended and probably -ev overall but for donks suited facecards are monsters