9 replies to this topic

[Monkeyman]

I have two hands here I wanted to ask you all about. I didn't have any significant reads in the first one, and in the second one all I recall is that UTG was fairly tight, with a VP$IP of about 30%. My question is, do you lay these hands down, and when? Do you play them any differently than I played them before laying them down? Any advice appreciated.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Monkeyman is MP2 with [Ac], [Ad]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (10.50 SB) [9d], [Th], [8s] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, UTG+1 calls.Turn: (8.25 BB) [5d] (3 players)UTG+1 checks, Monkeyman bets, Monkeyman calls, MP3 calls.River: (14.25 BB) [7s] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, UTG+1 calls, Monkeyman calls.Final Pot: 20.25 BB------Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Monkeyman is CO with [Ah], [Ac]. MP3 posts a blind of $2. UTG calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) [3c], [As], [2c] (3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (9.75 BB) [5h] (3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, MP3 calls, Monkeyman calls.River: (15.75 BB) [9h] (3 players)UTG bets, MP3 calls, Monkeyman calls.Final Pot: 18.75 BB

[akishore]

they both look fine, but i'm trying to spot some leaks. i'll reply if i find a better move, but they look fine right now.aseem

[KDawgCometh]

I have two hands here I wanted to ask you all about. I didn't have any significant reads in the first one, and in the second one all I recall is that UTG was fairly tight, with a VP$IP of about 30%. My question is, do you lay these hands down, and when? Do you play them any differently than I played them before laying them down? Any advice appreciated.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Monkeyman is MP2 with [Ac], [Ad]. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (10.50 SB) [9d], [Th], [8s] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, UTG+1 calls.Turn: (8.25 BB) [5d] (3 players)UTG+1 checks, Monkeyman bets, Monkeyman calls, MP3 calls.River: (14.25 BB) [7s] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, UTG+1 calls, Monkeyman calls.I think folding here might be the best idea. Ther is four to a straight and the CRser is betting into you and you haven't improved. I think that folding the turn might be the best idea, with the CRer and the overcallerFinal Pot: 20.25 BB------Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Monkeyman is CO with [Ah], [Ac]. MP3 posts a blind of $2. UTG calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) [3c], [As], [2c] (3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls.Turn: (9.75 BB) [5h] (3 players)UTG checks, MP3 bets, MP3 calls, Monkeyman calls.I think raising here is your best bet. at least you can isolate the threebettor. This may be chip spewing, but I still would riase here as you have 13 boat or quad outsRiver: (15.75 BB) [9h] (3 players)UTG bets, MP3 calls, Monkeyman calls.Final Pot: 18.75 BB

[akishore]

kdawg,i don't think you can fold on the river in hand 1. one option i've been thinking about is raising, because you don't want an overcall. in hindsight, you would have been three-bet or overcalled anyway since it seems that the third guy hit his straight, but check out the section in SSHE under river play where it gives examples of hands where raising is more profitable than calling. i definitely don't think you can fold to one bet, you can't know that someone behind you is going to raise. and betting the turn and calling the CR is correct i think.on hand two, i think you can make a case for raising, though it's tough with a four-straight out there and someone who was calling every bet on the flop. btw, you have 10 outs, not 13. 1 ace, and 3 of each board card.aseem

[KDawgCometh]

akishore said:

kdawg,i don't think you can fold on the river in hand 1. one option i've been thinking about is raising, because you don't want an overcall. in hindsight, you would have been three-bet or overcalled anyway since it seems that the third guy hit his straight, but check out the section in SSHE under river play where it gives examples of hands where raising is more profitable than calling. i definitely don't think you can fold to one bet, you can't know that someone behind you is going to raise. and betting the turn and calling the CR is correct i think.on hand two, i think you can make a case for raising, though it's tough with a four-straight out there and someone who was calling every bet on the flop. btw, you have 10 outs, not 13. 1 ace, and 3 of each board card.aseem

my bad. I've been thinking of the most logical way to tell JFarrell that he's wrong on folding on a river where someone started to show aggression with second pair with 13.5-1 odds. take a look at it. FOr hand 1 I think that folding the turn might be the best play with the 4 striaght on the board and two flush draws. I'm just not sure he's good or can improve there enough times to justify calling

[KDawgCometh]

XXEddie said:

I think raising here is your best bet. at least you can isolate the threebettor. This may be chip spewing, but I still would riase here as you have 13 boat or quad outs how do you figure 133 2's3 3's3 5's1 A

welcome to earth eddie, I already addressed this with assem. Just scroll up one post and actually read

[Vade]

Hand one...you can't fold the river. Not to one bet, and certainly not when it's raised one bet back to you.If it's either two bet in front of you, or raised and reraised behind you, then it might be.I don't see the logic in folding to one bet unless there's absolutely 0 chance of winning the pot, and I don't see that hereFolding the turn doesn't work for me, because UTG+1 bet the flop. He bet the flop, and then checkraised the turn. He doesn't have the straight based on this betting pattern. He either would have check raised or checkcalled the flop...or he would have reraised you assuming that MP3 ain't folding to one more when he already cold called twoIt's a tossup to three bet the turn or not, probably not a bad play, depends if you want MP3 to fold (coordinated board so maybe?)Hand two now...cap the turn if you canThere's no realistic way that 5 helped MP3 who got involved in a raising war with you on the flop, which can only be good for you.Even if the 5 made UTG a set or something (possible but unlikely), its an inferior set and should not worry youWould you really be worried about a four here? IF it was the 5 of clubs, okay that's scary but unless I'm reading this wrong you have a very dominating set of aces...oh and reraise on the river as wellNo flush, only an unlikely straight possibility

[Monkeyman]

Folding the turn doesn't work for me, because UTG+1 bet the flop. He bet the flop, and then checkraised the turn. He doesn't have the straight based on this betting pattern. He either would have check raised or checkcalled the flop...or he would have reraised you assuming that MP3 ain't folding to one more when he already cold called twoHe also raised pre-flop out of position. I didn't have a note for him as an especially tight player, but I know that in general, pre-flop raises out of position aren't common at the games I tend to play. I couldn't really see him raising QJ from that position, not even if it was sooooooooted. Possible, but very unlikely. So I agree with our assessment here, he probably didn't have the straight. A straight draw with JJ would be possible, though, and I'm also worried about MP3 having a straight draw, maybe even with something as weak as 77 (which I could believe somebody would cold-call pre-flop in one of my games). Of course, sets from either of them are also a possibility, but in that case I'm still drawing to two outs anyway. How concerned should I be about sets here, do you think? All three possible sets seem reasonably likely based on pre-flop and flop play from either player (MP3 could have slowplayed a set, like so many do at this level.)Hand two now...cap the turn if you canThere's no realistic way that 5 helped MP3 who got involved in a raising war with you on the flop, which can only be good for you.Even if the 5 made UTG a set or something (possible but unlikely), its an inferior set and should not worry youWould you really be worried about a four here? IF it was the 5 of clubs, okay that's scary but unless I'm reading this wrong you have a very dominating set of aces...oh and reraise on the river as wellNo flush, only an unlikely straight possibilityGood points. I hadn't really thought about what the 5 may or may not have done for MP3, but I couldn't be completely sure that he didn't have 54 -- he had posted a live blind (just sat down, I think) and might have called my raise pre-flop on general principles. I think that was why I slowed down -- A4 would also possibly have caused him to play the way he was going up to that point, and while I wouldn't expect that much aggression on the flop with 44, it would be possible. 44 also worried me for UTG -- he's tight, but 30% VP$IP means he's playing some stuff I never would, and low pocket pairs out of position seem likely enough.I also appreciate everyone else's comments -- just responded to Vade here because I wanted to get into the idea of putting people on hands. Hard to do at these stakes, though, but still interesting. :-)