15 replies to this topic

[jayistheman]

ok.. NL cash game (live game here on campus).25/.50 (id play higher, but friends poor)im sitting on about $60 (triple my $20 buyin)9 handed with deep stacks.im in 3rd position and pick up QQ after a limper.the early limper is a loose passive player, so im not too worried about the UTG limp, so i raise it to $3.00 (standard raise is about $2.50 in this game... we really need to up the blinds)everyone folds to a late position player who is pretty solid, but can make some loose calls. i tend to respect his raises, but his agression can be suspect from time to time.heres the tricky part.... he is getting an important phone call at the moment and is out of the room for a few seconds.... its a home game among friends, so someone will usually take a peek at his cards and see if his hand is worth waiting for.... the verdict is that he might want to play this hand.sooo.. he comes back and tells about his conversation, while looking at his hand.... he very nonchalantly attempts to act like nothing important is going on while he reraises me to $7folds around, and i instantly fold my QQ face up.he shows AA, and confirms my confidence in my read......some of the newcomers in the game (fresh fish) start to gripe about how "shady" this was and seem to suspect that i was tipped off by another friend.now the question.... would you make this laydown so easily (if at all), and if you saw it, would you gripe and complain that it was suspicious?i really couldnt concieve that he would reraise with any less than KK....by the way... the flop came A Q x............phew. :shock:

[creepy20]

i guess this is a friendly home game, but at our game is somebody leaves the room we just fold his hand. You said you had a good read on him, so yeah, I think it was an easy laydown. You'd have to have a pretty solid read though to lay it down..which Is why I said it was easy..seems like you had a pretty solid read. If I was at the game and I was a "new fish" I wouldn't of said anything about it being shady..it wouldn't be my place. If I didn't lose any money why would I be upset. If I had a phone call to take and was out of the room I would of just said , " fold my cards " so something like this doesn't happen.that flop would of hurt

[Erudis]

there was a little over 11 dollars in the pot, 4 to call. if i made the same read you did (that he had kings or aces) i still call. assuming he has a chip stack close to yours, i'd be playing to hit the set and taking down as much of his stack as possible. with the AQx flop i'd fold if i read the aces, if i was unsure i'd be willing to lose a little bit of money (but not an all in).these are the types of hands i like to be in because there's potential to break your opponent. you can pick up enough pots to regain any chips you lose by taking a shot at him - especially if there's a bunch of newbies there. but with everyone having deep stacks at the table, as you said, it'll be hard to break people (especially the good players like this particular opponent) by just nickling and diming them with obvious hands - you're gonna have to take an underpair or a connector to the flop, hit (or fold), and break them with it.i'm just not interested in always needing the best hand pre-flop to get some chips in a pot at a NL game.

[jayistheman]

Erudis said:

there was a little over 11 dollars in the pot, 4 to call. if i made the same read you did (that he had kings or aces) i still call. assuming he has a chip stack close to yours, i'd be playing to hit the set and taking down as much of his stack as possible. with the AQx flop i'd fold if i read the aces, if i was unsure i'd be willing to lose a little bit of money (but not an all in).these are the types of hands i like to be in because there's potential to break your opponent. you can pick up enough pots to regain any chips you lose by taking a shot at him - especially if there's a bunch of newbies there. but with everyone having deep stacks at the table, as you said, it'll be hard to break people (especially the good players like this particular opponent) by just nickling and diming them with obvious hands - you're gonna have to take an underpair or a connector to the flop, hit (or fold), and break them with it.i'm just not interested in always needing the best hand pre-flop to get some chips in a pot at a NL game.

i see what you are saying... but in that game, there are alot of better spots than taking an underpair to the flop... i felt it was alot easier to get involved in pots with the weaker players....

[jayistheman]

i guess this is a friendly home game, but at our game is somebody leaves the room we just fold his hand. we felt bad folding him... he's from malaysia, and his island had just suffered an earthquake/possible tsunami... we felt we could make an acception in case he was talking to his parents.

[Swift_Psycho]

How did you see the flop if you folded to him? I'm hoping you didn't show your hand while there were still other people involved in the hand. Did you guys just run it for fun?Oh yeah, and I'd just fold QQ face down to avoid suspicion from your friends.

[jayistheman]

it was heads up when it got back to me...we ran the flop for fun, as we both showed our hands...and i wanted to fold it face up as a message to the table... i wanted to show that my reads have been good, and im willing to make a big laydown.in retrospect, i would quietly slide them into the muck

[Swift_Psycho]

jayistheman said:

it was heads up when it got back to me...we ran the flop for fun, as we both showed our hands...and i wanted to fold it face up as a message to the table... i wanted to show that my reads have been good, and im willing to make a big laydown.in retrospect, i would quietly slide them into the muck

I can understand that. I assume that your competition is good enough to actually comprehend the message you are trying to send them, or else it probably is smarter to just fold the hand facedown.

[jayistheman]

Swift_Psycho said:

jayistheman said:

it was heads up when it got back to me...we ran the flop for fun, as we both showed our hands...and i wanted to fold it face up as a message to the table...  i wanted to show that my reads have been good, and im willing to make a big laydown.in retrospect, i would quietly slide them into the muck

I can understand that. I assume that your competition is good enough to actually comprehend the message you are trying to send them, or else it probably is smarter to just fold the hand facedown.

im thinking about it, and i realized that the only people who understood the significance of this move were already aware of my ability to do such things... all it really did was rile up the idiots.im mucking them face down next time

[Swift_Psycho]

jayistheman said:

Swift_Psycho said:

jayistheman said:

it was heads up when it got back to me...we ran the flop for fun, as we both showed our hands...and i wanted to fold it face up as a message to the table... i wanted to show that my reads have been good, and im willing to make a big laydown.in retrospect, i would quietly slide them into the muck

I can understand that. I assume that your competition is good enough to actually comprehend the message you are trying to send them, or else it probably is smarter to just fold the hand facedown.

im thinking about it, and i realized that the only people who understood the significance of this move were already aware of my ability to do such things... all it really did was rile up the idiots.im mucking them face down next time

Always happy to help out a fellow Philadelphia...n.

[creepy20]

i guess since he was from malaysia you don't fold him and I'm not saying that my home game isn't friendly...but if somebody takes a call ( which happens all the time ) they usually just say fold me...so the others can continue playing...unless it was in the middle of a hand he was in then we all wait...

[dms26]

Super Fantastico lay down Jay :shock: , but it is kind of a tip-off if they look at his cards and say he might want to play them. But def. a good move if he is a good player, you want to play big pots with bad players. Have fun in night class *shudders*.

[Rocketwadster]

That game allowed one of the ultimate sins in poker - allowing people not in the pot to see a players hole cards. :x I hate when the railbirds at my home game want to see what I or someone else in the pot has just folded. :cry: It's even worse when they want to see what I have when I am still in the pot :!: The people at my home game are railbirds for a reason, so why oh why would I ever allow them to see what I am playing or did not want to play? It will only hurt me, can't possibly help me, so I don't do it (if I can help it) 8) As for the laydown, I can't imagine anyone laying it down for only another $4. $4 to see a flop of a $15 pot (once you call it has $15) with pocket queens. That is a good price with a very good hand. :-) Had the raiser been sitting at the table the whole time and made the raise, I defy you to make the same play you did. :dance:

[jayistheman]

if he was at the table the whole hand, i would have only gotten more information on him.im making the laydown every time to him.its really situational, so i guess you'd have to be there....QQ isnt a premium hand in that spot IMO.in a tournament with large blinds and antes i'm most likely moving in on him, as stealing pots is much more prevalent.... every time ive ever folded QQ pre flop, ive been right..... and it happens alot more often than you would think.

[Rocketwadster]

jayistheman said:

if he was at the table the whole hand, i would have only gotten more information on him.im making the laydown every time to him.its really situational, so i guess you'd have to be there....QQ isnt a premium hand in that spot IMO.in a tournament with large blinds and antes i'm most likely moving in on him, as stealing pots is much more prevalent.... every time ive ever folded QQ pre flop, ive been right..... and it happens alot more often than you would think.

Just yesterday, I played in a Sit-N-Go, got pocket aces three times and pocket queens twice. I folded the pocket queens one of the times to a raise and re-raise in front of me pre-flop. Was it the right call - not in that instance as I would have flopped a set - but it was based solely on proper play (raise and re-raise in front of me). Why would I get involved with the fourth best hand when there are three possible hands that are better than mine that at least one player most likely has (ie. aces, kings, ace-king). In your situation, it was a one-on-one situation by the time his raise got back to you, with pretty good pot odds (spend $4 to see a flop and possibly win at least $15 (once you put the $4 in it is no longer yours, just like the money you had already put in the pot). It just seems like an easy call to me based on the circumstances you have described:wink:

[jayistheman]

you missed my point above....the one where i mentioned the absolute excess of fish in this game..better spots abound man... im not gonna take an underpair to the flop against him, and be forced to a much harder decision.i often ask myself "what do i do when the flop comes 7 high?" i didnt feel comfortable if such a flop were to come, so i folded for a better spot.i understand pot odds, but when i am positive i am thouroughly beaten, no need to draw to a set.... especially when i expect to lose a good sum of money on a vast majority of flops.given another caller i was easily seeing a flop... not heads up when i know i am in trouble far behind.