Live Nl Homecashgame

[paulie72 0]

This hand came up and i didnt know what do do with it. We were playing 5 handed with blinds of 0,5-1. CO is a good player and I respect his game. I called behind him because I wanted to let the BB in. The BB is a bad player who overplays a lot of hands, kind of unbluffable etc. Ive seen the BB minraise pre-flop before and he had a mid pair that time.No Limit Holdem Ring game Blinds: $0.50/$15 PlayersStacksizesUTG: $117 CO: $146 Button: $102 SB: $116 BB: $120Hero is button with A K Pre-flopUTG folds, CO raises 3, Hero calls 3, SB folds, BB raises 3, CO calls 3, Hero calls 3.Flop J T 4 UTG bets 15, CO raises to 45 total, Hero???

[simo_8ball 1]

Be more aggressive preflop. Then on the flop:

[paulie72 0]

Lol, I want BB in the hand not out by reraising pf. Plus I have the button with a hand that does well multiway.

[simo_8ball 1]

Would you be doing the same with AA/KK here?

[paulie72 0]

Yes, because I dont make much$ against CO but I can take the stack from BB. BB would move in, in raised pots with Tpnk.

[David_Nicoson 1]

If I take your reads to heart, it doesn't look like you can win this hand on the flop.BB's raise preflop implies a medium pair. If he has JJ or TT, he's certainly not folding. If he's truly unbluffable, he's not folding period. Even if we knock out the BB, the cut-off is going to have to make a big laydown for the odds with what has to be a pretty decent hand. 18 preflop + 15 + 45 + (102-6) : (102-6-45)174 : 51 = 3.4 : 1So if we can't win the hand outright on the flop, the best scenario for us is getting everybody all-in with the BB drawing very thin. So my line is flat call with the expectation that the BB raises all-in with his J5.I keep answering flat-call. I must be passive.

[No_Neck 0]

If I take your reads to heart, it doesn't look like you can win this hand on the flop.BB's raise preflop implies a medium pair. If he has JJ or TT, he's certainly not folding. If he's truly unbluffable, he's not folding period. Even if we knock out the BB, the cut-off is going to have to make a big laydown for the odds with what has to be a pretty decent hand. 18 preflop + 15 + 45 + (102-6) : (102-6-45)174 : 51 = 3.4 : 1So if we can't win the hand outright on the flop, the best scenario for us is getting everybody all-in with the BB drawing very thin. So my line is flat call with the expectation that the BB raises all-in with his J5.I keep answering flat-call. I must be passive.

so what if he has JJ we still have quite a few outs. I like the shovel. and QQ will pay this off.

[David_Nicoson 1]

so what if he has JJ we still have quite a few outs. I like the shovel. and QQ will pay this off.

If you shove, what do you hope will happen? What hands call and what hands fold?

[Scott3705 0]

on the flop, CO is fairly stuck into seeing this all the way through regardless of whatever he has if you or BB push. Although you say the BB is bad, he still may be able to fold a top pair hand if you come over the top as well. I'd rather go w/ Dave's advice and play passively here and try to give BB the best chance to come a long. W/ the pot the way it is, we are not pricing ourselves out on any street.Edit: I think reraising the BB preflop would have been a good idea though to isolate and get the CO out of the wya.

[No_Neck 0]

If you shove, what do you hope will happen? What hands call and what hands fold?

he could call with JT, JJ, TT, 44 AJ, KJ, QJ. I think you also need to account for this being air a certain percent of the time. EDIT: I didn't realize that we only had 100 left I thought we had the villian covered.

[fckthis 0]

Gamboooool.

[paulie72 0]

on the flop, CO is fairly stuck into seeing this all the way through regardless of whatever he has if you or BB push. Although you say the BB is bad, he still may be able to fold a top pair hand if you come over the top as well. I'd rather go w/ Dave's advice and play passively here and try to give BB the best chance to come a long. W/ the pot the way it is, we are not pricing ourselves out on any street.Edit: I think reraising the BB preflop would have been a good idea though to isolate and get the CO out of the wya.

Reraising pf would have been best indeed. After the CO only calls the minraise I should have known that he didnt have AA or KK and raise him out and keep position on the bad player.For the flop I think maybe a call would have induced the BB in because he thought very long before he folded to my shovel. CO showed his set of jacks.

[canateian 0]

Gamboooool.

QFT

[MasterLJ 0]

This hand came up and i didnt know what do do with it. We were playing 5 handed with blinds of 0,5-1. CO is a good player and I respect his game. I called behind him because I wanted to let the BB in. The BB is a bad player who overplays a lot of hands, kind of unbluffable etc. Ive seen the BB minraise pre-flop before and he had a mid pair that time.No Limit Holdem Ring game Blinds: $0.50/$15 PlayersStacksizesUTG: $117 CO: $146 Button: $102 SB: $116 BB: $120Hero is button with A K Pre-flopUTG folds, CO raises 3, Hero calls 3, SB folds, BB raises 3, CO calls 3, Hero calls 3.Flop J T 4 UTG bets 15, CO raises to 45 total, Hero???

You don't need any reads here.Heavy action plus on average (conservatively) 15ish outs (count over cards as 2 outs since some of the time they are no good) and I'm pushing all day, every day.

[simo_8ball 1]

You don't need any reads here.Heavy action plus on average (conservatively) 15ish outs (count over cards as 2 outs since some of the time they are no good) and I'm pushing all day, every day.

Just being picky - it's 14 outs by your reckoning.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Hero poops on his hand, smears his poop on his face, and stops wasting everyone's time with 12+ clean outs, 78 clams in the pot, and 81 back. If the bad guy's got top 2, you'll win just about 45% of the time. Which means you'll show a profit of like 4 bucks by getting all the money in on this flop.So: shove and live with it, and hope he's got a random draw, top pair, or something megasweet like KdQx. His range is bigger than you think, and you're drawing ultra-live against even his best few hands.Wang

[MasterLJ 0]

Just being picky - it's 14 outs by your reckoning.

So it is.

[NosotrosUSA 0]

Shove. Not even close.

[simo_8ball 1]

Shove, AINEC.

FYP. You gotta use all the acronyms if you're gonna post here.

[paulie72 0]

yeah as played its an easy shovel.Should have played my hand stronger preflop tough.

[NosotrosUSA 0]

FYP. You gotta use all the acronyms if you're gonna post here.

Gotcha. Anymore acronyms I need to know?

[simo_8ball 1]

< = less than (typically used to sarcastically compare a losing hand to a winning one...in other words, denotes a suckout or coinflip)+1 = akin to QFT (bumps the thread and "rates" it highly)2+2 = popular poker publisher and forumsAINEC = And It's Not Even CloseAIPF = all-in pre-flopbarrage = FCPers agree to inundate MTTs on various poker sites in order to increase the glory of the communityBBFIDTS = Bad Beat Forum Is Down The StreetBig Game = usually a $4k/$8k mixed poker game that takes place in Vegas with some of the best players in the worldBill Fillmaff = Phil Hellmuth parodyBob = FCP Info (the guy that handles FCP's poker room and promotions)BR = bankrollbroccoli = riggedCharter Member = an FCP member who signed up in fall 2005 for special promotionsCircuit, The = CardPlayer's poker radio showClarkmeister = in LHE, a bet/fold (or sometimes bet/call) line when HU and OOP on a river after the 4th flush card hits (a specific type of "value-bluff")cold-deck (n) / cold-decked (adj) = originally an indication that the deck was rigged, but now more oftenly used interchangeably with coolerconditioning = knowingly folding the best handconverter = tool that makes hand histories easier to readcooler (n) / coolered (adj) = a poker situation where one player has a very strong but second-best handCorporation = a group of pro players that took on Andy Beal in a series of highest-stakes HULHE gamesCP = CardPlayerDise = ParadisePokerDGN = Digital Gaming Network (FCP's new network)DN = Daniel NegreanuDS = Deep Stack/Double ShootoutEV = expected value (if something, usually an action, has positive expectation, it's +EV; similarly, if it has negative expectation, it's -EV)FCPHA = FCP Hardcore ArmyFCPHUL = FCP Heads-Up LeagueFidPoker = accepted nickname of Daniel's first protege, Brian Fidlerflipament = a heads-up poker tournament where the contestants agree to go all-in every hand (derives its name from the idea that it's more akin to flipping coins than poker)FPS = Fancy Play Syndrome (the tendency to make overly complicated plays when straight-forward ones would suffice)FT = Final Table or FullTiltFWP = FoxwoodsProFYP = "Fixed" Your PostGAJ = Get A JobGeneral = the part of the forum you're in nowGG me = "good game, me" (said after posting how you got knocked out of a tournament)Harrah's = the casino corporation responsible for the WSOP and WSOPCHH = Hand Historyhit by a bus = random gossip when a player hasn't been seen for a while (most famously applied to Gus Hansen)HOH = "Harrington On Hold 'Em"HPFAP = "Hold 'Em Poker For Advanced Players"HSP = High-Stakes Poker (the show on GSN)IGHN = I Go Home NowISACC = I Suck At Catching CardsISAP = I Suck At PokerJerry (Where's Jerry?) = DN Protege Contest participant who mysteriously disappeared at the final tablejopke = Phil Hellmuth misspelled 'joke' while on tilt, and Paul Phillips humorously brought attention to itKFL = Kathy Effing LiebertKidPoker = Daniel's nicknameKrablar = K3 in Hold 'Em (known for its mystical powers and pinch-pinch dance when it wins)LAG = Loose-Aggressivelawsuit = typically a reference to the recent lawsuit brought against the WPT by seven professional players (Daniel is opposed to it)LC = Low ContentLee (Jones) = PokerStars room manager (often the object of blame/praise)MM = Mike Matusowmobney = another Hellmuth misspelling brought to light by Phillipsmushu = DN's dog who occasionally posts poemsNeg-O = Negreanu OpenNC = No ContentNH/VNH = literally: 'nice hand'/'very nice hand'; figuratively: 'well said'NWP = Neverwinpokerobv = 'obviously' (most often used in a cynical manner)OP = original poster/original postOT = Off-Topicopen-farrell = open-folding when you have the option of checking (especially for "strategic" purposes as espoused by jfarrell)P5s = Pocket 5's (popular poker site famous for ranking online players)PIITB = Put It In The ButtPOTD = Post of the Daypottery = FCP member Tantalar famously asked for Daniel's address so that he could send him a vasePP = PartyPoker (or less commonly 'pocket pair')PPA = Poker Players AlliancePPL = Professional Poker LeaguePPT = Professional Poker TourProtege, Daniel's = Daniel's poker student who earns the title and prizes through a regularly scheduled contestPS = PokerStarsPT = PokerTrackerQFT = Quoted For Truth ("I Agree"/"Amen")QFMFT = Quoted For Mother Effing Truthrail = to observe a poker player without playing; the place from where the observation takes placerail call = a request for railing (typically by a player in a tournament)rail tards = stupid poker observers usually identified by dumb comments in the chatrakeback = a system that returns part of the rake that you payrigged = originally an accusation of underhanded poker software, now often used sarcasticallyRKIGS = Retarded Kid In Grocery StoreRGP = rec.gambling.poker (famous poker newsgroup)SFG = so effing gaySIITP = Stick It In The PooperSmash Strat = a basic low-stakes NLHE strategy proposed by SmasharooSS1/SS2 = "Super/System 1", "Super/System 2"SSHE = "Small Stakes Hold 'Em"Stacked = Daniel's poker video game that went through endless delaysStove (PokerStove) = hand analysis/simulation (equity calculation) toolStrat/Strategy = the section of the forum dealing with strategysuperthreads = extremely long threads, usually with divergent discussion and typically located in Off-Topic (i.e. Army, Hideout)(SW) = Sarcasm WarningT7 = Daniel's favorite HE handTAG = Tight-AggressiveTOP = "Theory of Poker"TP/MM = Turn Pro, Make Millions (variations are prolific)TTIUWP = This Thread Is Useless Without PicsTTIWWP = This Thread Is Worthless Without PicsUB = UltimateBetvariance = commonly a substitute for "luck" (most often of the "bad" variety)vlog = video-blogWA/WB = Way Ahead, Way Behind (used when speaking about poker strategy)WPT = World Poker TourWSOP = World Series Of PokerWSOPC = World Series of Poker Circuit EventsYSAPASSCKY = You Suck At Poker, And Should Seriously Consider Killing YourselfYSALSKY = You Suck At Life, So Kill YourselfYSAPSKY = You Suck At Poker, So Kill YourselfYSSCKY = You Should Seriously Consider Killing YourselfThat's about it.FCP Forum Speak Glossary

[NosotrosUSA 0]

I like your posts simo. I'll try to be as diligent as you. Holla!

[David_Nicoson 1]

I'm sure these ranges aren't quite right, but I'd like to try to back up my desire to play this three-handed with some math.

Board: Jd Td 4c Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	37.0666 %	  37.00% 	00.07%	  { JJ-TT, 44, J9s+, J9o+ }Hand  2:	41.8774 %	  41.58% 	00.29%	  { AdKd }Hand  3:	21.0560 %	  20.69% 	00.36%	  { KK-TT, AJs, KQs, AJo, KQo }

If we get all players all-in, then our share is 3 x $102 x 0.43 = $131.Suppose instead we get all-in against one of the players.

Board: Jd Td 4c Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	42.8004 %	  42.64% 	00.16%	  { KK-TT, AJs, KQs, J9s+, AJo, KQo, J9o, J4o }Hand  2:	57.1996 %	  57.04% 	00.16%	  { AdKd }

Our share is (2 x $102 + $6 + $15) x 0.57 = $225 x 0.57 = $129. Even when we assign a range that is a dog to our hand (which I think is very optimistic), we're making about the same money as if we played it three ways.If we pull KQ out of the range for a single caller, our equity is about half.

Board: Jd Td 4c Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	50.5008 %	  50.24% 	00.26%	  { KK-TT, 44, AJs, KJs, AJo, KJo }Hand  2:	49.4992 %	  49.24% 	00.26%	  { AdKd }

$225 x 0.505 = $114That may not seem like a big difference, but it's less than half as much profit.One might argue that there's some chance that we win the pot uncontested. I'm not buying it, though.