Fold Top Two?

[blakheart 3]

I was playing live at a $100 max buy in with $2 $2 blinds. Villian 1 has played only a couple of hands, he just sat down. I made a continuation bet earlier with 2nd pair, he called me saying I didn't have anything. Turn brought me trips, I ended up showing the hand down (against a differnt caller) and he commented how he knew I didn't know I had much when I made the flop bet.Villian 2 has been playing a very Laggy style, trying to see a flop with any two cards. StacksVillian 1 $90Villian 2 $300 plusMP $225Hero $1709 handed tableHero is dealt 5 7 on the buttonUTG folds, Villian 2 raises to $5, MP calls, Hero calls, SB calls, villian 1 calls.5 players $25 potFlop4 5 7 SB checks, Villian 1 checks, Villian 2 bets $10, MP folds, Hero raises $30, SB folds Villian 1 raises to $85 and is all in, Villian 2 folds, Hero foldsPlease don't tell me to fold preflop, flop play is what I am interested in.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Bad Fold IMO.Villain 2 i would be scared of he could raise with suited connectors, gap suited connectors, laggy players with money are dangerous cuz they probably arent laggy, just appear that way.But he foldedand the whole issue about knowing your not strong with your flop bet, pffff thats a jopke. its a 50/50. christ i dont even have to be there and i can take a random guess and say you dont have a strong hand.in conclusion, I call the push

[fckthis 0]

I dont like the fold. I mean if this was a push from villian who covered you, you could make a case, but for 50 more...I cant see myself ever folding here.

[Royal_Tour 0]

to go further, villain 1 is a funny type.just from his talk already after only playing a few hands, i'm gonna say he is either an older regular.or a young guy who thinks hes a regular.if its the older guy, i can see him already having a straight, those older guys are tricky. especially ones who talk the younger guy, seems like your classic over pair. i rule out a set

[No_Neck 0]

by my calc you are getting 2-1, with two pair, I make the crying call.

[simo_8ball 1]

Pot is $150. You need to call $55 more.You need 27% equity.

Board: 4c 5d 7h Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	22.4242 %	  22.02% 	00.40%	  { 7c5c }Hand  2:	77.5758 %	  77.17% 	00.40%	  { 8s6s }

It's not a huge mistake to call even if he has the straight. I call every time here.

[blakheart 3]

I actually called, and he had a straight that held up. I thought about afterwards and I could not put him on a hand that I can beat. When I raise that flop I am declaring that I have better than tptk. Villian 1 should have that beat and expects me to call. Unless he played AA, KK or QQ really weird, dosen't he have to have a straight or a set here? My point with his table talk is that he figures himself to be a good player. He is probably 50 or so. I figure those players to not make a fancy bluff here, so what could he have?I posted this as a fold since many responders like to go contrary. Simo's calculations make me feel better about the call, however.

[fckthis 0]

He could have 99-JJ, could have 76,56,46, etc.Lots of hands that push here and you have beat.

[Royal_Tour 0]

to go further, villain 1 is a funny type.just from his talk already after only playing a few hands, i'm gonna say he is either an older regular.or a young guy who thinks hes a regular.if its the older guy, i can see him already having a straight, those older guys are tricky. especially ones who talk the younger guy, seems like your classic over pair. i rule out a set

I actually called, and he had a straight that held up. I thought about afterwards and I could not put him on a hand that I can beat. When I raise that flop I am declaring that I have better than tptk. Villian 1 should have that beat and expects me to call. Unless he played AA, KK or QQ really weird, dosen't he have to have a straight or a set here? My point with his table talk is that he figures himself to be a good player. He is probably 50 or so. I figure those players to not make a fancy bluff here, so what could he have?I posted this as a fold since many responders like to go contrary. Simo's calculations make me feel better about the call, however.

wow!, i mean... I know i'm good.. but God, online poker is my kryptonite, i value the ability to see the player.and this is why.Im awesome

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I actually called, and he had a straight that held up. I thought about afterwards and I could not put him on a hand that I can beat.

Watch it, here. That's not the question you want to be asking.Wang

[No_Neck 0]

Watch it, here. That's not the question you want to be asking.Wang

ummmmm actually it is in most cases.

[DonkSlayer 1]

ummmmm actually it is in most cases.

Vs, what hands can he have that I cannot beat? Same difference. NL, you have to know what he has. Limit, it's about what you have. Easy.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

ummmmm actually it is in most cases.

No. It's not.Are you guys, like, dead serious about this? Do you REALLY believe the issue is "Am I ahead or am I behind" in these cases??Wang

[krup24 0]

No. It's not.Are you guys, like, dead serious about this? Do you REALLY believe the issue is "Am I ahead or am I behind" in these cases??Wang

care to elaborate or are you a one trick pony?

[Shimmering Wang 1]

care to elaborate or are you a one trick pony?

This has been covered, but the issue is:"Am I going to win enough to justify putting another $55 into the pot?" What's my winrate vs. his expected range? What odds are the pot offering me? Bingo/Bango. So what if you're losing, most of the time? So what if you're losing 75% of the time? Our equity only has to be- like Simo said- 27% for this to be a break-even call...Wang

[krup24 0]

This has been covered, but the issue is:"Am I going to win enough to justify putting another $55 into the pot?" What's my winrate vs. his expected range? What odds are the pot offering me? Bingo/Bango. So what if you're losing, most of the time? So what if you're losing 75% of the time? Our equity only has to be- like Simo said- 27% for this to be a break-even call...Wang

thanks now that wasn't nearly as condescending

[DonkSlayer 1]

So what if you're losing, most of the time? So what if you're losing 75% of the time? Our equity only has to be- like Simo said- 27% for this to be a break-even call...Wang

So, if the OP says "I'm not winning here 95% of the time", it's OK not to put his money in if the pot isn't offering him 45:1 or something, right?We're kind of back where we started because he really thinks that.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

So, if the OP says "I'm not winning here 95% of the time", it's OK not to put his money in if the pot isn't offering him 45:1 or something, right?We're kind of back where we started because he really thinks that.

Man, now I'm really confused. If he's getting 45-1, he only needs to win 1/46 times, not 45/46...