stevielarson 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Micro limits I know but I am rebuilding the old roll, gotta start somewhere.I had been playing tight/agressive picking up small pots and laying down hands in tight spots. I had just taken a $3+ pot off the villian about 2 rounds earlier when I called down his overbet bluff with 2 pair. Other than that hand I had no real read.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 ($2.50)Hero ($8.08)Button ($4.97)SB ($0.51)BB ($1.50)UTG ($5.57)UTG+1 ($1.21)MP1 ($3.86)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K. UTG raises to $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.08, Hero raises to $0.24, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.16, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $0.16.Flop: ($0.83) 6, J, 7(3 players)UTG bets $1.18, MP2 folds, Hero calls $1.18.Turn: ($3.19) 9(2 players)UTG checks, Hero checks.River: ($3.19) T(2 players)UTG bets $4.15 (All-In), Hero folds.Final Pot: $7.34I was considering reraising postflop but it was for so much of his stack that I am not sure what I would have done if reraised. My read was that I was good and I was ready to get it in on the turn if the diamond didnt fall. An easy laydown I think on the river.Please help me. Link to post Share on other sites
STYLINHAWYN 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 no, i thinked you played it as best as you could have given that flop. You lost the least amount of money possble. pf goodflop i like it, just call and wait for a safe turn card to decide what your going to doturn standardriver perfectoverall - fantastic, superedit: didnt see the small reraise PF 1st time around, gotta reraise bigger Link to post Share on other sites
stevielarson 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 no, i thinked you played it as best as you could have given that flop. You lost the least amount of money possble. pf goodflop i like it, just call and wait for a safe turn card to decide what your going to doturn standardriver perfectoverall - fantastic, superThanks, the more I thought about it I don't think I could have done much different given the stack sizes vs. the pot. If I rereaise the flop and he pushes is it worth it to make the call? Am I committed? I had put him on a single lower pair, probably with a diamond.Edit: I guess my read was leaning towards a maniac when he put chip in the pot. Is it possible to lay it down post flop? Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Stevie,I'm not sure if you're familiar with the smash strat that goes around these forums, but when i started out online, I too played the super micro's. and I honestly made the start of my BR by playing smash start on 2 or 3 micro tables.You will get doubled up more often than you think.for this hand, I'm goin to comment on it outside of micro limits, Its hard to really judge a hand at lower limits (I mean no disrespect we all start somewhere)I like the re-raise to 24. You now have 2 callers.flop comes, and UTG leads out, This should tell you a few things. 1- he probably doesnt have the flush, if u completely missed, why is he firing out, unless he holds the A diamond. Maybe AJ. MP folds, I would now make a raise.we are raising to take down this pot from anyone with a foldable hand, and we are raising to make money off the A diamond when another diamond doesnt fall.(which happens more often than 1 hitting) Its ok to want to play this safe, but now you lost control of the hand by just calling.the next diamond falls. UTG checks, you check behind, depending on what would happen on the flpo after i raised, would change how the turn is played also.river, the way this hand played out, the river fold is good. U cant call with 4 diamonds and no idea where we are in the hand now. Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Micro limits I know but I am rebuilding the old roll, gotta start somewhere.I had been playing tight/agressive picking up small pots and laying down hands in tight spots. I had just taken a $3+ pot off the villian about 2 rounds earlier when I called down his overbet bluff with 2 pair. Other than that hand I had no real read.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 ($2.50)Hero ($8.08)Button ($4.97)SB ($0.51)BB ($1.50)UTG ($5.57)UTG+1 ($1.21)MP1 ($3.86)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K. UTG raises to $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.08, Hero raises to $0.24, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.16, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $0.16.Flop: ($0.83) 6, J, 7(3 players)UTG bets $1.18, MP2 folds, Hero calls $1.18.Turn: ($3.19) 9(2 players)UTG checks, Hero checks.River: ($3.19) T(2 players)UTG bets $4.15 (All-In), Hero folds.Final Pot: $7.34I was considering reraising postflop but it was for so much of his stack that I am not sure what I would have done if reraised. My read was that I was good and I was ready to get it in on the turn if the diamond didnt fall. An easy laydown I think on the river.Please help me.Here goes.... Preflop was way way too light .... you'vre giving the first caller at least 3-1 which are way more than enough to even call you down with 2, 7 off.. not to mention the other callers behind which are getting even better odds..Post flop and three poele in there with you, and no diamon in your hand.you should put the brakes on...... any kinda of aggressive betting you'll have to dump it but thats just me Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Here goes.... Preflop was way way too light .... you'vre giving the first caller at least 3-1 which are way more than enough to even call you down with 2, 7 off.. not to mention the other callers behind which are getting even better odds..Post flop and three poele in there with you, and no diamon in your hand.you should put the brakes on...... any kinda of aggressive betting you'll have to dump it but thats just metoo much preflop and your pot is too large if u get called. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The flop overbet makes me think the guy has like Face/J, but if the face is a diamond he probably would've called a push. I probably would've raised the flop to $3 anyway and folded to a push because i don't care about pot odds Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 too much preflop and your pot is too large if u get called.Negative... All you're looking for is one caller not two or three and should be willing to put in all in pre flop if rerasiedI've lost too many pots trying to cute with Kings and Aces... Link to post Share on other sites
CoranMoran 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I raise all-in on the flop.And likely get called by a lesser pair.As played, Villain completely dictated the post flop play.And we never had any chance of winning that hand.--CM Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Negative... All you're looking for is one caller not two or three and should be willing to put in all in pre flop if rerasiedI've lost too many pots trying to cute with Kings and Aces...lets pretend its 1/2 NL. since the BB is .02 we can pretend its now 2.00a raise to 8 is very standard in online 1/2. 1 call. now we re-raise to 24.Usually this hand plays out differently now.Player 1 is out of position with a caller and a re-raise behind him. he needs premium to call this. why go larger? anyhand in player 1's spot that can call a larger bet is either re-raising with AA/KK or calling and giving us a lot of guessing if an A, or connecting/suited board hits, and with a large pot. its hard to get away.also, if player 1 folds to our larger bet, player 2 loses his odds to play with semi decent hands or low PP's, suited ace. etc.... Link to post Share on other sites
stevielarson 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Stevie,I'm not sure if you're familiar with the smash strat that goes around these forums, but when i started out online, I too played the super micro's. and I honestly made the start of my BR by playing smash start on 2 or 3 micro tables.You will get doubled up more often than you think.for this hand, I'm goin to comment on it outside of micro limits, Its hard to really judge a hand at lower limits (I mean no disrespect we all start somewhere)Yeah I have played the Smash Strat alot lately, just mixing it up a bit more on this night. No offence taken. Ive played alot higher but just had to take alot of money off lately. Rebuilding within my bankroll as an experiment. I guess that alot of the questions I have about this hand are similiar in that I am not experienced with playing much at these levels, plus I normally play limit.Thanks for the help guys. Link to post Share on other sites
STYLINHAWYN 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 lets pretend its 1/2 NL. since the BB is .02 we can pretend its now 2.00a raise to 8 is very standard in online 1/2. 1 call. now we re-raise to 24.Usually this hand plays out differently now.Player 1 is out of position with a caller and a re-raise behind him. he needs premium to call this. why go larger? anyhand in player 1's spot that can call a larger bet is either re-raising with AA/KK or calling and giving us a lot of guessing if an A, or connecting/suited board hits, and with a large pot. its hard to get away.also, if player 1 folds to our larger bet, player 2 loses his odds to play with semi decent hands or low PP's, suited ace. etc....probably just me, but id rather take the hand down right there and not see a flop. I have to agree with crb on this one. I'd go ahead and make a more than 4x reraise here, i'd go with $36 - $40 using your example. and the part that I highlighted above, lets not forget that this is a ring game (a micro limits game to say the least) and people will playing way worse hands than just AA and KK. they will probaby stick their whole stack in on any pair, or any big ace with a kicker T/J and higher. they will also want to gamble and call given good odds of 3-1 with speculative hands like any small pair and suited connectors, trying to hit a flop and stack us. I don't like to give them this opportunity with my premium hands.let them know its going to cost a lot of money to keep on playing and take control of the hand Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 probably just me, but id rather take the hand down right there and not see a flop. I have to agree with crb on this one. I'd go ahead and make a more than 4x reraise here, i'd go with $36 - $40 using your example. and the part that I highlighted above, lets not forget that this is a ring game (a micro limits game to say the least) and people will playing way worse hands than just AA and KK. they will probaby stick their whole stack in on any pair, or any big ace with a kicker T/J and higher. they will also want to gamble and call given good odds of 3-1 with speculative hands like any small pair and suited connectors, trying to hit a flop and stack us. I don't like to give them this opportunity with my premium hands.let them know its going to cost a lot of money to keep on playing and take control of the handwell, I'm not much of a grinder, so whatever works for you. Personally I think KK is monster in this spot and i want to make money off it.I'd rather gamble with a chance to win a lot rather than push people out to win 0.16i also like taking shots at limits above my roll, so again, maybe listening to me isnt the best thing for everyone**the part you highlighted shouldnt reflect the micro game. Lets play this hand like we would at any level, rather then saying, we should do this or that simply because its micro. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I think this hand is played flawlessly in terms of long term EV. I play it the same in terms of BB raises at 1/2NL. Link to post Share on other sites
caribstv 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 lets pretend its 1/2 NL. since the BB is .02 we can pretend its now 2.00a raise to 8 is very standard in online 1/2. 1 call. now we re-raise to 24.Usually this hand plays out differently now.Player 1 is out of position with a caller and a re-raise behind him. he needs premium to call this. why go larger? anyhand in player 1's spot that can call a larger bet is either re-raising with AA/KK or calling and giving us a lot of guessing if an A, or connecting/suited board hits, and with a large pot. its hard to get away.also, if player 1 folds to our larger bet, player 2 loses his odds to play with semi decent hands or low PP's, suited ace. etc....With a raise and a caller you want to narrow you field... u give them 3-1 to the first person all you're doing is building the pot with no objective.... u might as well haven't raise in the first place...i would go to $40 to $45 and maybe get one caller... u don;t need 2 people coming along for the ride drawing....after everyone calls from the way u suggest you will have no clue post flopp where u stand... Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 lets pretend its 1/2 NL. since the BB is .02 we can pretend its now 2.00a raise to 8 is very standard in online 1/2. 1 call. now we re-raise to 24.With real deep stacks that would be pretty bad I think. Rather raise it up big and let a person think you might be squeezing then give someone great odds on a call.Also this is .01/.02 so the players are generally horrible. I'd pop this up to something like .32 min and would be looking to get it all in on this flop.As played I think an overbet by a bad player on a board like this will mean Adx more often then a set or any other hand that has us beat. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I think this hand is played flawlessly in terms of long term EV. I play it the same in terms of BB raises at 1/2NL.Thank you!!,for some reason people think they are going to get both callers calling your re-raise with position because of pot odds. As i will agree lots of people will call small raises multi-way, this is a completely different situation.Player A - like i said, now is 1st to act post flop, had 1 caller, and then 1 re-raise behind himplayer B - has 1 raiser, and 1 re-raiser behind him. If player A calls, player B is getting 3.5-1 Pot odds, but is faced with a difficult decision on wether he wants to gamble or not.remember, its 3.5-1. not 8-1, player B isnt exactly getting the deal of a century here Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now