8 replies to this topic

[pokerglory]

I'm just curious how many of you would approach a situation like this (in a NL cash game):-> You're in early position with a pocket pair (let's say JJ). You raise it preflop (let's say 3xBB) and only get one caller (blinds fold).-> The flop comes low cards rainbow with nothing really connecting (let's say 2 5 10).-> You make a pot-sized bet (or maybe even an overbet), and the player in late position calls.-> Turn is an overcard (Q or K).What do you do here? If you check, the other player may take it a sign of weakness and bet, forcing you to make a decision. I think continuing to bet out (for information) is better - if you get played back at, the late player has possibly spiked the turn card and you have a decision to make. If he smooth calls, you can hope to make your set on the river, or that your PP might be good afterall.Just curious as to everyone's thought process.Also consider a similar situation with AQ where you spike the Q off the flop, and a K comes on the turn.

[rollito]

bet to see where you're at like you said.....if you check you are asking to get out played

[Frills]

Stay aggressive throughout

[creepy20]

you have to bet..and not a weak bet, if you get played back at then he probably has you..if he just calls...then somebody else who has more experiance can answer that oh..and I hate Jacks. :evil:

[wrigh1]

he could have a small - medium pocket pair too. alternativley..he might be putting you on a bluff, having caught a pair on the flop, and a scare card falling, he doesnt want to come over the top and put you to the test, thinking that you might fold. if he still thinks you are bluffing, and you bet on the river, he will raise.

[akishore]

continue with aggression.as a side note, the reason you're probably finding it tough to continue with aggression on the turn (and react to a raise) is that you're being too aggressive on the flop.don't bet the pot or overbet the pot with an overpair. it's too big for value, and you make it much harder for yourself on later streets. that's a concept called pot manipulation, and while it's mainly a PL idea, it's applicable to NL as well.i rarely ever bet the pot in NL/PL. most of my bets are 1/2 - 2/3. there's no need for such an aggressive bet on such a great flop for your jacks.aseem

[JFarrell20]

pokerglory said:

I'm just curious how many of you would approach a situation like this (in a NL cash game):-> You're in early position with a pocket pair (let's say JJ). You raise it preflop (let's say 3xBB) and only get one caller (blinds fold).-> The flop comes low cards rainbow with nothing really connecting (let's say 2 5 10).-> You make a pot-sized bet (or maybe even an overbet), and the player in late position calls.-> Turn is an overcard (Q or K).What do you do here? If you check, the other player may take it a sign of weakness and bet, forcing you to make a decision. I think continuing to bet out (for information) is better - if you get played back at, the late player has possibly spiked the turn card and you have a decision to make. If he smooth calls, you can hope to make your set on the river, or that your PP might be good afterall.Just curious as to everyone's thought process.Also consider a similar situation with AQ where you spike the Q off the flop, and a K comes on the turn.

Incorporate the "Weak Lead" into your game. I call it "damage control" personally but generally it's a "weak lead".You want to control the possible damage here. You don't want to check and get bluffed out of the pot, so you need to continue to show strength, and hope for (at worst) a call. Bet at least the same amount you bet on the flop (Same $ amount, not pot-ratio). Usually you should bet more, though, because betting the same amount is a sign of weakness. Bet about 20% more than you bet on the flop. Hope for a call or fold. If he re-raises you, you can get away from the hand by only losing this minimum turn bet. Plus, if he just calls, you may improve your hand on the river. The main key is to not check here so that he bluffs you out. You need to master this skill as it is a huge part of my NL game.

[pokerglory]

[quote="JFarrell20"][quote=pokerglory]Incorporate the "Weak Lead" into your game. I call it "damage control" personally but generally it's a "weak lead".You want to control the possible damage here. You don't want to check and get bluffed out of the pot, so you need to continue to show strength, and hope for (at worst) a call. Bet at least the same amount you bet on the flop (Same $ amount, not pot-ratio). Usually you should bet more, though, because betting the same amount is a sign of weakness. Bet about 20% more than you bet on the flop. Hope for a call or fold. If he re-raises you, you can get away from the hand by only losing this minimum turn bet. Plus, if he just calls, you may improve your hand on the river. The main key is to not check here so that he bluffs you out. You need to master this skill as it is a huge part of my NL game.[/quote]I agree. I do try to use the weak lead in hopes of not getting played back at. Only problem is when you're the short stack and don't have that many chips left to play the weak lead! ;)I'm revisiting this thread because I encountered a similar situation yesterday - the difference was instead of being in early position, I was on the button.1st level of Pokerstars 1 table SNG. Blinds are 10-20. First hand, I'm dealt J-J on the button. Obviously no feel for the players at this point.4 limpers call 20 to me. I raise it from 20 to 80. BB and limper call the raise.Flop comes 2-5-10 rainbow. Checked to me, so I go ahead and bet 100. BB folds, the other limper quickly calls.Turn comes Ace. (I think now there's a 2 card flush on board). Limper checks to me.-> What is the better play here? Check to see the river card for free and hope to river the set or continue to bet to show strength and gather information?I went ahead and bet 100 again. The limper check-raises me (standard amateurish move here) 180 on top. Since it's early and any Ax, 2 pair or small set beats me, I decide to fold. It hurt my chip stack a little (1500 to 1220 after one hand), but it worked out in the long run since I still finished 2nd. So the question remains - is betting on the turn with the overcard showing a better play or checking to see the river card? I mean, the fold cost me 100 in chips, but if I had checked and spiked the jack on the river, I could have won a bigger pot.Your thoughts?

[JFarrell20]

Well in this case you bet out in order to find out just how strong your opponent was. Yes, (I'll act like I don't assume your opponent was on a straight draw due to his quick flop call) I'd say betting here when an ace falls is correct. Remember there is the likelihood that even if he spiked just a pair of aces, he could simply smoothcall and you can still hit trips on the river and take down a large pot.Don't feel upset that he raised you here. It's correct to keep applying pressure (or at least weaklead/find out where you are).Betting here when an ace falls against 1 opponent is much more profitable in the long run than checking and hoping to hit trips (to a guy that may not even pay you off).This is pretty basic strategy.