7 replies to this topic

[Silly_11]

Just need some opinions on the 'correct' play....

I'm pretty sure the CO is a fish, Button is a pretty aggressive resonable player.

Absolute Poker
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$3
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with
2 folds, CO calls, Button raises to $6, SB folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: ($20, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3, Button raises to $6, Hero folds ???

Should I be leading this flop?

--------------------------------------

Button is same aggressive resonable player, Co is still Fish

Absolute Poker
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$3
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button raises to $6, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: ($26, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Button bets $3, Hero ??

[CoranMoran]

Hand 1:

I check the flop for info and protection.

We very well may be ahead of Button.
But our hand is vulnerable and we need to get CO out of the picture so that he does not get lucky and hit his overcards.

We have good relative position to Button.
And this allows us to check-raise the flop and face CO with 2 cold.
Leading out on the flop makes it easier for CO to come along for the ride.
And we want to avoid this.

CO's funky lead threw off our plan.
But it did give us important info that we can use.
THe bet and raise tell us that our weak 2nd pair is not good.
And we can comfortably throw it away instead of chasing to improve.

I fold this flop.


Hand 2:

Our hand is stronger here.
And it costs us less to continue.

We are certainly not strong enough to lead into 3 opponents on this coordinated flop.
But we can safely call the flop bet to see another card.


--CM

[mrdannyg]

i agree with CM on hand 1. if its checked back to the original PFR and he bets, i'll usually check-raise. with the weird lead into him and his raise, its a fold.

on hand 2, i can understand just calling - at an SH game though, i like check-raising better. we don't have to put the button on an ace here, and he may easily be betting TK, TQ, JQ, or something worse.

i check-raise the flop, and lead any turn if its HU. if my C/R doesn't get it HU, i proceed cautiously.

[beans422]

Hand 1: I lead half the time. I agree we can better isolate the pot getting it heads up by c/r the button but leading out is a good change of pace play plus it puts the c/o in a bad position since the preflop raiser might still raise my bet and I'm capable of 3 betting.

Hand 2: I either fold right there on the flop or call 1 and fold on turn if I don't get straight or trips. I fold the flop b/c button could have an ace or one of the other limpers might be c/r their ace...in that case, we'd be trapped for another bet when we have little chance to improve.

[Silly_11]

Thanks for the help guys.

Yeah the first hand is I guess standard-ish... just running bad and want to look for some leaks. I ended up folding (which is the correct play based on how I played it) But it seems like the button could be raising to eliminate me.... and calling one bet it would be worth it but not two....

The second hand. We had two thoughts....

1) call and see what develops... This seems bad calling when no closing the action on a gutshot (4 outs). The chances of a re-raise seem too great.... so is a raise or fold not better here?

2) When you say .... 'C/R to get HU and then proceed cautiously if not HU' ... SO you C/R flop then c/f the turn? or r/f the turn?

Maybe that's too Weak/tight if i'm folding here?

[DonkSlayer]

1. Bleh. I think we're only C/R the flop if the CO folds AND we know that the button will fold UI on the turn. Remember we suck at position in this hand and I hate being dead on the river if we lead a turn UI and get called/raised. Fold flop. Leading would be OK if we were heads-up.

2. Probably call. If CO finds a fold and the turn completely bricks, do we get tricky and lead that turn?

[MrNiceGuy]

My thoughts on hand 2....

If we call, we have about 3 outs to broadway (I'm discounting 1 because of the chances of a split pot, and because there's a good chance at least one opponent will have a boat redraw on this board). I think we can give ourselves about 1 J out. I think we have about 0.5 K outs. That's a total of 4.5 outs. Our implied odds will be very low no matter what we hit, because the board would be so scary that it'd be tough to get action unless we're beat, and because our position sucks.

The pot is laying us about 8-1 immediate odds (after the rake). If one or both opponents call, we'll be getting about the right odds to take one off. If either of our opponents check-raise, we'll be in a world of hurt. So I'm leaning toward a fold over a call here, because the pot odds are close, our implied odds suck, and it could be raised behind us.

If we raise, and both limpers fold, I think we increase our outs up to about 7, and we also help our implied odds a bit. So we'd be getting 8-2 immediate odds (versus folding), and there's a small chance we could win the pot right there. Still, though, 8-2 is not quite the right odds for a 7-outer, and if either limper comes along anyway, we'll be regretting the decision to raise.

I think all 3 decisions are close, but right now, I'm leaning slightly toward a fold. If we had a backdoor flush draw, I would change my preference to a call.

[Zach6668]

I fold the first hand very quickly.

Second hand, I can't fold a gutshot and a pair for 1 bet in a huge pot on the flop.