14 replies to this topic

[NorthPacific]

Are the odds with you to complete the sb with any two suited cards, when it's folded to you and bb. Second question, do you think it's +EV to raise in that same position?

[wrto4556]

Raise any two suited cards when it's folded to you in the SB. You're risking 1.5 to win 1.5. If you get a fold 51% of the time you show a profit.

[TheSheriff]

wrto, i have noticed you would save yourself lots of time replying to simple questions if you demanded from everyone that ask you a question like this that they read SSHE.of course this is a joke, but not really.because it will save all these inspiring Limit players a lot of time, and most importantly, money

[NorthPacific]

Thanks, I am currently reading SSHE and learning more every day. I am aware that it is proper to complete with any two suited and to raise when folded to in the sb. I was hoping for some discussion of the odds for chasing a flush after the flop when you only have one person in the hand with you.Say, you hold T5 flop = A 4 9 you raise when it's folded to you. The BB calls. After the flop you put the BB on a pair of aces. You check, BB bets, I am not much on exact odds but I don't think you have the odd to chase your flush with just one person in the pot??

[wrto4556]

you should bet. It's called a semi-bluff.How the hell can you put him on aces? :-)

[akishore]

follow through with aggression on the flop if you raised pre-flop. bet the flop, call a raise. you always have odds to chase a flush draw because of implied odds.pre-flop, pot is 4 SB. if you check and villian bets, pot is 5 SB and it's 1 SB to you. getting 5-to-1 odds, you have odds to call. if you bet and villian raises, the pot is 7 SB and it's 1 SB to you. you still have good odds. even if you had called pre-flop then checked and villian bet on that flop, the pot is 3 SB and it's 1 SB to you, but if you can get even 1 BB from villian on turn/river, you have correct implied odds to call and chase your flush draw.in general, any draw with 8 or more outs almost always has correct pot/implied odds to call a bet on the flop with. this usually holds true for the turn as well, except in rare cases (e.g. you complete, villian checks for a heads-up flop, check, check, you check on the turn and villian bets. now the pot is 2 BB and it's 1 to you, you're only getting 2-to-1. implied odds aren't even good here, as you can't be certain you can get 2 BB on the river, or even 1 for that matter. here is an exceptional case where a flush draw is not worth chasing, but you shouldn't be in that situation as you should at least bet the flop on a semi-bluff, if not raise pre-flop on a steal. hell, even bet the turn at least if it goes check-check. you get my point).aseem

[JFarrell20]

wrto4556 said:

Raise any two suited cards when it's folded to you in the SB. You're risking 1.5 to win 1.5. If you get a fold 51% of the time you show a profit.

What does suited cards have to do with this? If it's folded around to you in the SB, being suited has very little extra value. Raising here with large top-pair strength cards is much better than "any two suited cards".Remember, suited cards gain strength in multi-way pots. Not heads up.In WRTO's case, he may raise in the SB with ANY cards, which is fine if it's his style. But don't think that being suited here in the SB is anything special because it's not.

[KDawgCometh]

JFarrell20 said:

wrto4556 said:

Raise any two suited cards when it's folded to you in the SB. You're risking 1.5 to win 1.5. If you get a fold 51% of the time you show a profit.

What does suited cards have to do with this? If it's folded around to you in the SB, being suited has very little extra value. Raising here with large top-pair strength cards is much better than "any two suited cards".Remember, suited cards gain strength in multi-way pots. Not heads up.In WRTO's case, he may raise in the SB with ANY cards, which is fine if it's his style. But don't think that being suited here in the SB is anything special because it's not.

it gives you an extra way to win

[JFarrell20]

Raising in the SB with Jack 7 offsuit is much better than raising with 94 suited. We are talking limit, right? Now NL is different, because of the ability to outplay your opponent after the flop. I'm assuming this query was in regards to limit play though.Trust me. "Any two suited cards" is not applicable at all to this thread. If you raise here with any two suited cards you may as well raise with ANY hand whatsoever. There is very little benefit of being suited heads-up. Don't confuse the OP into thinking that being suited in a folded-around SB is some kind of gift from God. That info. is not accurate.Complete with any two suited cards in an un-raised multi-way pot. That is where the value comes into play.

[ghoti7four]

JFarrell fine purveyor of insight wrote something like

Quote

Raising here with large top-pair strength cards is much better than "any two suited cards".

Raising here with pocket Aces is much better than "any two suited cards", but that also has nothing to do with the question...

[Erudis]

his point was raising from the SB when it's folded to you has nothing to do with your cards being suited. if you are going to raise with suited cards, you should raise with any two cards. in other words, you shouldn't be raising on the "strength" of being suited.

[ghoti7four]

but that misses the point of the original question... obviously you should complete the blinds or raise with a strong hand. the original question deals with the odds relative to a marginal hand i.e. one that is only suited with otherwise weak cards. The question could be put better from bottom up as in, does the small advantage given to my cards because they are suited justify completing the blind when in a hand with the same pip values unsuited I would not? JFarrell rather than examining the question simply reiterates the point that "in poker the better your hand is, the better it is" which is to say--he doesn't make any point at all. I don't mean to be offensive toward you Erudis, and as I recall you put up some quality posts and what not, it is just that my boy J has a tendency to tear people down and frankly I derive some silly childish pleasure from flaming him if only to see what he will fire back... (he is quite funny you know)

[JFarrell20]

Erudis said:

his point was raising from the SB when it's folded to you has nothing to do with your cards being suited.  if you are going to raise with suited cards, you should raise with any two cards.  in other words, you shouldn't be raising on the "strength" of being suited.

LOL. Don't plagiarize me! I want money!

[ghoti7four]

Also JFarrell don't you owe me two fullsize posters of yourself? Its not good to break a promise...

[JFarrell20]

ghoti7four said:

Also JFarrell don't you owe me two fullsize posters of yourself? Its not good to break a promise...

I'm in the process of having them laminated.My uncle Cletus lives in East Texas and him and his wife/sister Mable own a small laminating shop. They pretty much corner the market in that area. Cousin Theeble is sure glad the gu'mint hasn't looked into their monopoly just yet.Theeble's girlfriend Bessie called me yesterday from atop her cow while it was grazin' and her told me that it ought might be in Houston in 'bout a fortnight or whatnot.So when I get them, I will express-mail them to you. Stay patient.