Poker Thinking

[aucu 3]

Just been thinking about poker thinking at different levels, I’m sure that this is covered in books but I’m just trying to sort it out, how does this sound or do I have anything wrong.1st level, I’m thinking about my own cards2nd level I’m thinking about what cards you may have 3rd level I’m thinking about what cards you think I have.4th level I’m thinking about what you think I’m thinking about you5th level I’m thinking about what you think I’m thinking that you think I’m thinking6th level I’m thinking about what you think I’m thinking that you think I’m thinking you are thinking.The first three levels are playing cards, beyond that it’s about playing the player.Level 3 is the default level for beginners; it’s where all the strong means week, week means strong tells and simple bluffs originate.Level 4 is the first “advanced” level of thought where you pick up tells and recognize a bluff for what it is.Level 5 thinking only works against good players who are thinking on level 4 and you can try things like reverse tells and oversized bets with strong hands to make them look like bluffs.Level 6 and beyond would only apply to advanced players trying to confuse each other with how many layers of deception they are using.

[trystero 0]

There's more to cards and opponents, however, because a talented poker player attempts to analyze an entire situation. There are stack sizes to consider, for example.

[jjdylan 0]

1st level, I’m thinking about my own cards2nd level I’m thinking about what cards you may have 3rd level I’m thinking about what cards you think I have.4th level I’m thinking about what you think I’m thinking about you5th level "**** it, I'm going to showdown."

[Highlow16 0]

yeah, and think about what level your opponent thinks on

[finztotheleft 0]

My head hurts, I can't think anymore

[JesseW316 0]

If you know what level your opponent thinks at, one level lower will beat him. That's basically it.

[crazyplaya6 0]

you also have to take into account his perception of you and your recent betting patterns. is he going to call you with ace 10 on the button after you try to reraise steal his button raise with k9? or will he actually think you have a hand?

[partyholdem 0]

Nice post, aucu, by the way I really think that this is the way a really seasoned poker player is thinking when playing poker, especially at the 5th and 6th level. I cannot go further than the fourth level, but that is mostly due to my little experience in poker... Don't matter, a great post indeed, playing great poker is really like some kind of art!Bryan Nelson

[Uber-Donk 0]

1st level, I’m thinking about my own cards2nd level I’m thinking about what cards you may have 3rd level I’m thinking about what cards you think I have.4th level I’m thinking about what you think I’m thinking about you5th level "**** it, I'm going to showdown."

This is when ya get a thumpin.Depth of thought takes a bit of head scratching, it´s not like odds, position and stack size all of which can be calculated.Level of thinking takes all those in and trumps them at the same time.

[Devilboy666 0]

Sklansky starts numbering these levels at 0:0th level: I have AK, the board is AQJ, so I can beat KQ, KJ, smaller pairs etc but I lose to AQ, AJ, QJ, KT etc. Everone can master this.1st level: My opponent didn't raise pre-flop so he probably doesn't have QQ or JJ but he could have AA or KT etc2nd level: I raised pre-flop so my opponent can put me on AK or a pocket pair etc etc3rd level: My opponent thinks that I'll put him on blah blah etc etc4th level: ... welll you get the picture.You can't think on the 4th level if your opponent only thinks on the 2nd level. The trick is to work out what level your opponent is thinking on and then think on one level above him.

[aucu 3]

Sklansky starts numbering these levels at 0:0th level: I have AK, the board is AQJ, so I can beat KQ, KJ, smaller pairs etc but I lose to AQ, AJ, QJ, KT etc. Everone can master this.1st level: My opponent didn't raise pre-flop so he probably doesn't have QQ or JJ but he could have AA or KT etc2nd level: I raised pre-flop so my opponent can put me on AK or a pocket pair etc etc3rd level: My opponent thinks that I'll put him on blah blah etc etc4th level: ... welll you get the picture.You can't think on the 4th level if your opponent only thinks on the 2nd level. The trick is to work out what level your opponent is thinking on and then think on one level above him.

Ya I knew he wrote some thing like this, it's just that I read this years ago and did not understand it at the time but now I see how important it is.Just wanted to post it for the hell of it and maybe help someone get their head around it.MJ

[MasterLJ 0]

There's infinite levels, and that's often why we see pros make "donk" plays.Believe it or not, ZeeJustin made a really nice post on 2+2 that applies to more than just poker.He talks about stages of competency:1. Unconcious Incompetency: You're bad and you don't know it2. Concious Incompetency: You understand that you suck3. Concious Competence: If you focus, you are good4. Unconcious Competence: You are so comfortable that you don't need to think about what you are doing.It's kind of a nice rubrick to put some of your opponents into, in conjunction with how deep their levels of thinking go. Generally speaking, for most of us at the lower stages no one is thinking on "deep" levels.

[The Bwaves 0]

thinking: –adjective1. rational; reasoning: People are thinking animals. 2. thoughtful; reflective: Any thinking person would reject that plan. –noun 3. thought; judgment, reflection: clear thinking. While everyone should be "thinking" on diferent levels we must think about table momentum also. Players in the level 4,5, & 6 are thinking above the average player.BUTWe absolutely have to concider the variable "emotion" created by luck and momentum.emotion–noun 1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness. 2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc. 3. any strong agitation of the feelings actuated by experiencing love, hate, fear, etc., and usually accompanied by certain physiological changes, as increased heartbeat or respiration, and often overt manifestation, as crying or shaking. 4. an instance of this. 5. something that causes such a reaction: the powerful emotion of a great symphony.Emotion is one of the most important factors in "thinking" because emotion can obviously make us think rationaly or irrationaly.Conclusion:Even players that are thinking on levels 5/6 and above will become emotional and the thought process can be altered thus lowering their level of "thinking".

[NaugaHyde 0]

Conclusion:Even players that are thinking on levels 5/6 and above will become emotional and the thought process can be altered thus lowering their level of "thinking".

Yes spoting this is key and a lot of times it's easy to tell.