8 replies to this topic

[dimseven]

10-20 WPex no read on villian


5 players fold, I raise with Kd8c in CO, 2 more folds, BB calls.


FLOP: [Jh, 5s, 5c]

BB bets, I raise, BB calls.


TURN: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js]

BB checks, I bet, BB calls.


RIVER: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js][4d]

BB checks, I bet...


Obviously going to fold to a raise...

Also I swear no one 3bets pf JJ, 99, or even KK-QQ pf lately on that site...

[LuckyMcCatcher]

10-20 WPex no read on villian
5 players fold, I raise with Kd8c in CO, 2 more folds, BB calls.
FLOP: [Jh, 5s, 5c]

BB bets, I raise, BB calls.
TURN: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js]

BB checks, I bet, BB calls.
RIVER: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js][4d]

BB checks, I bet...
Obviously going to fold to a raise...

Also I swear no one 3bets pf JJ, 99, or even KK-QQ pf lately on that site...

I dont like any street except pf. Especially considering your general read of the site. What is he betting here that you beat? What is he folding? He is always going to showdown w/ a decent ace and after the turn he doesnt even have to worry about a kicker.

[Knight_Owl]

10-20 WPex no read on villian
5 players fold, I raise with Kd8c in CO, 2 more folds, BB calls.
FLOP: [Jh, 5s, 5c]

BB bets, I raise, BB calls.
TURN: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js]

BB checks, I bet, BB calls.
RIVER: [Jh, 5s, 5c][Js][4d]

BB checks, I bet...
Obviously going to fold to a raise...

Also I swear no one 3bets pf JJ, 99, or even KK-QQ pf lately on that site...

sick. shorthanded like the pre-flop raise. Flop raise mmmm close. More read dependent. yet the turn raise followed by donking off the river?! C'mon now A high beats you here.

Seriously. What were you actually thinkikng to accomplish after this villian called your Raise,

Pre-Flop

Flop

and

Turn

Seriously.

[dimseven]

I dont like any street except pf. Especially considering your general read of the site. What is he betting here that you beat? What is he folding? He is always going to showdown w/ a decent ace and after the turn he doesnt even have to worry about a kicker.

Didn't write a general read, just the observation of a couple people cold calling big -higher pairs... But yeah in general, a lot of players are loose agg.

Are you folding the flop? I admit the turn bet was bad, I wasn't thinking, just continuing from the flop raise and hoping to bet off A high (or air/a flop bluff) and it was just a bad bet BC the J paired (and I had no read on this villian). Followed by the river.

yet the turn raise followed by donking off the river?! C'mon now A high beats you here.

Seriously. What were you actually thinkikng to accomplish after this villian called your Raise,

Didn't raise the turn, but I admit the bet there was bad. See what i wrote above

[LuckyMcCatcher]

Didn't write a general read, just the observation of a couple people cold calling big -higher pairs... But yeah in general, a lot of players are loose agg.

Are you folding the flop? I admit the turn bet was bad, I wasn't thinking, just continuing from the flop raise and hoping to bet off A high (or air/a flop bluff) and it was just a bad bet BC the J paired (and I had no read on this villian). Followed by the river.
Didn't raise the turn, but I admit the bet there was bad. See what i wrote above

I would say that you at least need a better read to continue in this hand. This is a good spot to just cut your loss. If he has air he has air, but more often you are spewing. You can call flop for metagame reasons if you like, but try not to make a habit of forcing the issue in blind steal situations. It can become a huge leak.

[akishore]

Preflop is close, I personally don't include K8o in my CO opening range, but I am a little tight steal-wise, so that's up to you.

Flop I detest. No one believes a fastplay on that board, ever. I would float and pop the turn or just fold the flop. If you are behind you usually have three outs, six max, and villian isn't folding almost ever on this board with any better hand (oftentimes including ace high).

Turn I detest. What is the purpose of a bet? Does 55-TT fold there? Does ace high think "okay, he must be good, I fold"? Does queen high and worse think "I might be good, let me call down"?

River I detest the most. YIKES. Talk about this being a terrible bluff, and a terrible value bet at the same time. Same logic as on turn but amplified because there are no more cards to come to save you.

Aseem

[checkymcfold]

i don't like the flop raise. generally if i re-defend a steal on an airy flop, it's going to be with a turn raise instead of a flop raise.

in my book your options should be fold flop or raise turn. i do each about 50% of the time by default, but tailor that % entirely to the style of the player in the blinds and how s/he has reacted to steals in the past. any relevant steal hands on this guy?

and for the reasons aseem has already said, i think the river bet is icky. it might KINDA make sense if there was a flush draw on the flop, but still probably not, as king high would beat all but the best busted draws. shut down.

[CoranMoran]

BB's funky lead bet usually means you are behind.
This could certainly be the J.
But I often see opponents lead an XXY flop with a small pocket pair.
Regardless, it almost always means that he is at least willing to see the showdown.

With possibly only 3 outs, folding the flop and cutting losses is fine.
Sometimes I will call the flop if I think I have enough clean outs and Villain will likely check and give me a free river card.
But i won't bluff after his postflop bet.

--cm

[TB17]

I think if you are going to raise the flop, you better shut down on the turn when you dont' get there. That J is the absolute worst card for you.

A donk bet could mean a J, it could not. It could easily be a midpair, and your 8 MIGHT be good for an out. However, the only hands he will fold on the turn is 44, 33 and 22, and his call range is HUGE. It's not -ev to bet the turn at all. C/F the river when you check behind.