16 replies to this topic

[Chicago Z]

Goal: To achieve a 25K BR by mult-tabling $600 buy in NLHE cash games on PP and by playing $200-$500 buy in NLHE at B&M Starting BR$13,376 Day 1 +859.97 (3 hours of play multi-tabling 4 tables of 600 max) Current BR $14,126.97 Thanks for the positive responses to my quest. Day 1 was a success financially, but I feel that I played very poorly and made some costly mistakes. My session lasted 3 hours and I played 4 tables of 600 max (2 10 seat PL tables; 1 6 seat PL table and 1 10 seat NL table). Normally, I like to only multi 3 tables, but the action was slow, so I added a fourth table. I was able to have a big winning sessions only due to one key hand. I flopped a set of 10's against my opponents pocket QQ and doubled through him for a monster pot. However, that particular hand was easy to play because my opponent did not make a big pre-flop raise w/ his queens. The purpose of sharing my quest is not to boast about the big pots that I win, but to recieve feedback on many of difficult decisions and hands that arise in on-line & B&M NL cash games. Therefore, many of the hand histories that I plan to share are hands that I played poorly or marginal holdings that I believe that I played particulary well. I dont believe posting about taking down a big pot w/ top set will help advance our NL cash game skills. Therefore, what I plan to do is everyday list several hands that I feel I misplayed or played well. Here we go...Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (9 handed) converterCO ($354.35)Button ($1013.35)Hero ($639)BB ($720.7)UTG ($1007.25)UTG+1 ($554.1)MP1 ($549)MP2 ($623.25)MP3 ($569)Preflop: Hero is SB with [Kd], [Kc]. UTG raises to $16, UTG calls $24, MP2 calls $24.Flop: ($126) [Jc], [5c], [3s] (3 players)Hero bets $100, UTG folds, MP2 folds.Final Pot: $226I pick up a premium hand and play it aggressively. Too many people make the mistake of slow playing these handsParty Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converterSB ($513.05)Hero ($601)UTG ($831.79)MP ($1097.2)CO ($163)Button ($1137.95)Preflop: Hero is BB with [As], [Js]. 2 folds, CO calls $14, Button folds.Flop: ($49) [7h], [4d], [8s] (2 players)Hero bets $40, CO folds.Final Pot: $89Pick up a solid hand and raise and get one caller. Flop comes ragged and I make a big continuation bet to pick up the pot. Too aggressive??Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (10 handed) converterMP3 ($635.15)CO ($600)Button ($712.2)SB ($533.55)Hero ($579)UTG ($593.1)UTG+1 ($479.4)UTG+2 ($304)MP1 ($28.45)MP2 ($648.15)Preflop: Hero is BB with [Qc], [Qd]. MP3 posts a blind of $9. CO posts a blind of $6. UTG calls $6, 1 fold, MP3 folds, Hero calls $219.Flop: ($665) [Tc], [2c], [Th] (2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: ($665) [Td] (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($665) [5d] (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $665I played this hand really bad and it costs me a bundle. My read on my opponent was that he was playing a lot of hands and was short staked. I re-rasied to find out where I was at. When he moved in, I should have put him on AA or KK and folded. I called because he raised me all-in and itwas only $219 more to me. I thought that he was overplaying AK. Should I have folded to the $39 raise? Or was my re-raise OK and should I have folded his all in bet? Thoughts??I know I misplayed my hand and I must eliminate those mistakes to reach my BR goal. Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (10 handed) converterUTG+2 ($531.15)MP1 ($662)MP2 ($712.2)MP3 ($530.55)Hero ($594)Button ($609.3)SB ($254)BB ($662)UTG ($22.45)UTG+1 ($636.15)Preflop: Hero is CO with [Ah], [Qd]. 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $29, MP1 folds.Flop: ($91) [7d], [2c], [3c] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $70, UTG+2 calls $70.Turn: ($231) [Kd] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.River: ($231) [Kh] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: $231Raised with AQ in late position hoping to pick up pt from multiple limpers. Get one caller. Make a contination bet. Get called and then shut down. Win good sized pot with Ace high. Again, I won the pot...but is this too aggressive. Against 1 or 2 opponents on the flop, if I was the pre-flop raiser, I like to stay aggressive and make a continuation bet. Thoughts??Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (8 handed) converterButton ($435)SB ($656)BB ($673.2)UTG ($530.55)Hero ($717)MP1 ($774.3)MP2 ($251)CO ($653)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Ks], [Ts]. 1 fold, Hero calls $14, MP1 calls $14.Flop: ($69) [8h], [3s], [5s] (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $30, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $60.Turn: ($249) [9s] (2 players)Hero bets $100, MP2 calls $100.River: ($449) [3d] (2 players)Hero bets $150, MP2 calls $41 (All-In).Final Pot: $640I like to play suited big cards in NL games. Here, I limp and get raised. However, the raise is very minimal, so I call. Huge mistake that is made often is these baby raises in NL/PL games. What's the point? Hit a great flop. Check raise to try to win the pot on the flop. Thoughts on this play??Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (9 handed) converterMP2 ($155)MP3 ($606)CO ($194.4)Button ($612.65)Hero ($594)BB ($769.2)UTG ($715.5)UTG+1 ($567.15)MP1 ($643.8)Preflop: Hero is SB with [2h], [2c]. 1 fold, Hero calls $9, BB calls $6.Flop: ($36) [5h], [3s], [5c] (3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $10, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.Final Pot: $81Easy call for me with pocket 22. Ill play any pocket pair for a bet less than 5% of my stack hoping to flop a set. I believe the implied odds justify such a call. Here I miss the flop...but likely so did everyone. The weak bet of $10 tells me that information. Check raise and pick up the pot. This is an example of how you can read your opponents on-line by their betting patterns.Those are just a few hands that I thought could generate some discussion. Thoughts on the 5% rule for playing mid to low pocket pairs; Making big continuation bets when you miss the flop vs 1 or 2 opponents; Check raising w/ big draws; Overplaying QQ & JJ.Hopefully, those hands will generate some good discussions. Sorry, I dont have time to include more hands. I plan on attempting to post daily. Please let me know if there are any specific hands that you would like discussed and I will try to find some good example.Thanks,Chicago Z

[akishore]

hand 1 (KK):i dislike the pre-flop re-raise strongly. you want your re-raises to be pot-sized, and your raise of $24 was pretty weak considering both players had already invested $16. your raise was almost a min. reraise, which is never a good thing pre-flop. when the action comes to you, the pot is around $40. your call makes it around $56. so i would raise between $40-$50 on top (i would probably make it $66 to go or maybe $56 to go). flop bet was fine.hand 2 (AJ):the pre-flop raise was better than hand 1, especially given that this hand was PL. the flop bet was pretty aggressive. i generally keep my feeler bets and bluff bets and value bets about the same, around 2/3 of the pot, but that's just my style. it's fine to bet almost the pot on the flop on a bluff, but make sure you're doing that on your good hands too, otherwise you become readable. but if you're making pot-sized bets on your good hands, you might not be getting paid off enough when people fold to those big bets. the pre-flop raise is debatable, but okay... you're out of position on a less-than-premium hand, so i would prefer to check and see a flop, but it worked out in this case.hand 3 (QQ):tough hand. i think a call is in order after you reraise and he pushes all-in, because of pot odds. you're getting nearly 2-to-1 on your money, and against an overplayed AK (your read), it's an easy call. if you think he'd only do this with AA/KK, fold of course, but if you go by your read, it's a good call.hand 4 (AQ):perfect. actually, i wouldn't have made such an aggressive bet on the flop, but that goes along with my previous statement about keeping most of my bets between 1/2 pot - 2/3 pot. this way, you don't committ too many of your chips if you're beaten, and you also allow others to raise you when you have strong hands because the bets seem weak. finally, you can also continue on the turn if you feel that your opponent was weak on the flop (e.g. two overcards without a king) for another 1/2 pot bet. i don't like to get into the habit of automatically shutting down with ace-high on the turn if i get called on the flop... you open yourself up to a lot of bluffing from smart players.hand 5 (KTs):i agree that playing suited cards is great in NL. however, i'd much rather play T7s than KTs. in fact, i'd much rather play 74s than KTs. why? because with 74s, you actually have a lot more options to shoot for, e.g. two pair, trips and straight that won't add to the value of my opponent's hand. with KTs, if flop comes KKx, how do i know where i am? i might be dominated against KQ or AK. if the flop comes AKT, how do i know that my two pair is best? even if the flop comes AQJ, i won't know where i am if the turn pairs the board, etc. suited cards are great because of the implied odds, but i much prefer little suited cards over hands like KTs. i would play JTs, but not KTs. the king is just too easily dominated. i would have folded to the pre-flop raise, but your post-flop play was great.hand 6 (22):perfect. your logic is completely correct.as for the topics, here are some quick notes:1. 5% rule - correct. you can even go up to 10%. you'll hit your set 1 in 9 times about, so you have good implied odds if you call 10% of your stack pre-flop.2. continuation bets - they're generally a good idea, but i would vary up my play more. granted, i play NL live only (limit online), so varying up your play is much more important against opponents who are actually watching your patterns rather than multi-tabling. sometimes i'll checkraise my top pair if i raised pre-flop, so that i can also take down pots on check-raise bluffs. other times i'll make continuation bets with the nuts just so i can take down a pot when i make a continuation bet on a missed flop. in general though, continuation bets are good because hold 'em rewards aggression.3. check-raising - powerful NL move. do it on bluffs, do it with the nuts, do it with draws. just mix up your game with it. you did it perfectly with that draw on hand 5.4. overplaying QQ/JJ - this is tough. it really depends by your read. if a TAG player is showing a lot of strength, lay these hands down, but against weaker players, remember that this is the fourth-best and fifth-best hand you're dealing with, so don't be afraid to push it in with these.good post, and i look forward to reading more.aseem

[gobears]

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Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converterSB ($513.05)Hero ($601)UTG ($831.79)MP ($1097.2)CO ($163)Button ($1137.95)Preflop: Hero is BB with [As], [Js]. 2 folds, CO calls $14, Button folds.Flop: ($49) [7h], [4d], [8s] (2 players)Hero bets $40, CO folds.Final Pot: $89Pick up a solid hand and raise and get one caller. Flop comes ragged and I make a big continuation bet to pick up the pot. Too aggressive??Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (10 handed) converterUTG+2 ($531.15)MP1 ($662)MP2 ($712.2)MP3 ($530.55)Hero ($594)Button ($609.3)SB ($254)BB ($662)UTG ($22.45)UTG+1 ($636.15)Preflop: Hero is CO with [Ah], [Qd]. 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $29, MP1 folds.Flop: ($91) [7d], [2c], [3c] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $70, UTG+2 calls $70.Turn: ($231) [Kd] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.River: ($231) [Kh] (2 players)UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: $231Raised with AQ in late position hoping to pick up pt from multiple limpers. Get one caller. Make a contination bet. Get called and then shut down. Win good sized pot with Ace high. Again, I won the pot...but is this too aggressive. Against 1 or 2 opponents on the flop, if I was the pre-flop raiser, I like to stay aggressive and make a continuation bet. Thoughts??Making big continuation bets when you miss the flop vs 1 or 2 opponents;

Thanks for showing these hands; very interesting.In these two examples, you fired out continuation bets with a ragged flop with no cards above a 10. What is your strategy if one or two paint cards show up on the flop that miss you completely? Do you just check?If you are re-raised after the flop or bet into on the turn after a cold call (no improvement for you on the turn), would you normally fold at that point even if the bet was small? It seems like in these examples, the best you could hope for was a top pair so I would fold to any strength.

[Nutcracker]

Hands look good for the most part. Continuing the aggression postflop with continuation bets is a good move (with 1 or 2 opponents), though yours are kinda high. I prefer around 1/2 - 2/3 pot size, so that I don't have to win as many pots to make it an even money proposition (keep in mind you must bet about that same amount when you do hit or have an overpair in order to keep them guessing). By betting about pot size, you gotta win that 50% of the time to break even. I play lower money SNGs primarily though and perhaps higher limit cash games are different.

[akishore]

Nutcracker said:

I prefer around 1/2 - 2/3 pot size, so that I don't have to win as many pots to make it an even money proposition (keep in mind you must bet about that same amount when you do hit or have an overpair in order to keep them guessing). By betting about pot size, you gotta win that 50% of the time to break even.

amen! you stated it much more eloquently than i did in my attempt to make the same point.aseem

[Nutcracker]

Sorry, I didn't even read your post, but it appears I just rehashed what you said. Oh well, at least he has 2 opinions saying the same thing =p

[Chicago Z]

Thanks to everyone for the insightful posts. I was over doing my continuation bets. I will make the necessary adjustments.

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In these two examples, you fired out continuation bets with a ragged flop with no cards above a 10. What is your strategy if one or two paint cards show up on the flop that miss you completely? Do you just check?

I would still stay aggressive and bet on the flop

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If you are re-raised after the flop or bet into on the turn after a cold call (no improvement for you on the turn), would you normally fold at that point even if the bet was small? It seems like in these examples, the best you could hope for was a top pair so I would fold to any strength.

I would likely give up because of the potential of reverse domination if I hit my big card

[Nutcracker]

Quote

In these two examples, you fired out continuation bets with a ragged flop with no cards above a 10. What is your strategy if one or two paint cards show up on the flop that miss you completely? Do you just check?

1 paint card, I make a continuation bet. 2, I use my bet judgement, but if 2 others are in the pot, best to check. Anything coordinated and mid-high and I check. This is assuming you missed the flop of course.

[slappy110]

my no limit cash game is semi limited and haven't played over the 100 dollar buyin level..i primarily play limit so im probably not qualified to offer advice...why post the? lol...i just wanna say best of luck and that im on party all the time and i would love to watch and offer support from the FCP!!! whats your name on there and what times do you play? ps..your continuation bets on the flop coincide with exactly what DB has in super system...so great work

[Chicago Z]

Sorry for no new posts. Personal situation arose this week and I was unable to play any poker and had to withdrawl some money from my bankroll to purchase a new car for my wife. Ill be back soon w/ some more NL/PL posts. Playing live tonight, so hopefully I'll have some good hands to post tomorrow.

[Rocketwadster]

the only thing I noticed is that your starting dollars for each of the hands you listed is gradually decreasing (not sure what order these were played in), yet you won abunch of money with the hands you have posted. Where did all the money go? Care to share some of the losers (which is where you should be asking for help on, so you don't lose them again if possible)? :wink:

[dms26]

Rocketwadster said:

the only thing I noticed is that your starting dollars for each of the hands you listed is gradually decreasing (not sure what order these were played in), yet you won abunch of money with the hands you have posted. Where did all the money go? Care to share some of the losers (which is where you should be asking for help on, so you don't lose them again if possible)? :wink:

Hand histories are usually sent in reverse order for some odd reason. I think his biggest losing hand was probably the QQ hand.

[pokerchronic]

Rocketwadster said:

the only thing I noticed is that your starting dollars for each of the hands you listed is gradually decreasing (not sure what order these were played in), yet you won abunch of money with the hands you have posted. Where did all the money go? Care to share some of the losers (which is where you should be asking for help on, so you don't lose them again if possible)? :wink:

From the OP"Therefore, what I plan to do is everyday list several hands that I feel I misplayed or played well. Here we go... "So it does not appear that the hands are listed in a chronlogical order.

[Rocketwadster]

So, if they are not in chronological order, where are the hands that made his bankroll go up over $800 on that day? If these are them, then why does the value of his bankroll stay relatively the same (slighltly decreasing for the most part how they are listed). If he gained $800, I fail to see it from what is posted.I'm not calling the poster a liar or anything, I am just curious is all.

[dms26]

Rocketwadster said:

So, if they are not in chronological order, where are the hands that made his bankroll go up over $800 on that day? If these are them, then why does the value of his bankroll stay relatively the same (slighltly decreasing for the most part how they are listed). If he gained $800, I fail to see it from what is posted.I'm not calling the poster a liar or anything, I am just curious is all.

If the hand histories are sent in reverse order (they are at PS), then his balance should be higher at the top and decrease slightly if he's having a good session (his 1st hand played would be clear at the bottom). Plus he said he was 4 tabling so he only had to make a little more than 200 per table, so his balance near the top should have been around $800 per table if he started with $600. Most of the balances I saw near the top were in the 600's and 700's but maybe his last few hands he won some money but they weren't real interesting hands so he didn't post them.

[Rocketwadster]

gotcha

[adamkadmon]

i was just about to post a post about hand history posts and who reads them and that they are so dull and boring then came across your post and was delighted to see a post that I could realate to. Although I have yet to read the hand history of this post, it was refreshing to see a post from someone in approximatly the same structured games and a similar bankroll. There are so many micro limit post that I have difficulty relating to. Then on the opposite side of the spectrum we have daniel offering his insights into the big game. Anyhow bravo to you for the nice post. I will read it when I get home and offer my opinion for what it's worth. I've been mulling over the idea of playing online and imagine I could learn a thing or two from you so keep em coming and best of luck in your personal affairs.