2086 replies to this topic

[SuitedAces21]

Jadaki, on Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 8:17 AM, said:

Besides, all women are crazy.

Thats why I'm gay.

[princeof56k]

Jadaki, on Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 8:15 AM, said:

My point was given the same number (or realitivly close) of shot attempts in a game, that those players I mentioned could put up a 50+ streak like Kobe. Wade and Lebron are not as good 3 point shooters as Kobe, so I don't really see them doing it, Arenas could but he is so up and down I wouldn't count on it. I've seen KG and Amara have 40+ point games on 16-18 shot attempts. Give them 35 and your telling me they wouldn't put up 50?

Well they might, but lets do the math. Suppose one of them gets 35 attempts. With increased defense because of the force feeding hitting around 50% is a tall order, but lets suppose it happens and they hit 18 of their 35. That's 36 points since no 3's are involved. That means they have to hit an additional 14 free throws to hit 50. That's actually tougher than people think. Its also tough just to get 35 shots in the first place. It's incorrect to assume that with more shots the players shooting percentage will remain the same.Most guys go off for 50 because they are just hot. I'll conceed that any of the guys you mentioned could go for 50 with enough shots. Could they for 50 in 4 consecutive games even with force feeding? I doubt it because only 2 guys in NBA history have done it. I've never seen guy as hot as Kobe is over a stetch like this.Here's a couple of links for those who enjoy staring at stats.http://www.basketbal...s/FGA_game.htmlhttp://www.basketbal...s/PTS_game.htmlThose links have 2 of my favorite scoring anomolies:Hakeem being red hot going 24-40 and only finishing with 48. He NEVER went to the line during that game!Tony Delk scoring 53. Not much else to say.On the current topic, notice how Webber had 47 attempts in a game and hit 24 (a little over 50%). He only scored 51 that game. To be fair, I also have to say that Kobe had a game with 47 attempts hitting 17 for 41 points. Thats ball hogging!

[Jadaki]

princeof56k, on Sunday, March 25th, 2007, 1:00 PM, said:

Hakeem being red hot going 24-40 and only finishing with 48. He NEVER went to the line during that game!

Well, there is a reason they are anomalies. How many games during his career did Hakeem never go to the line? The chances of us seeing a game now where a dominate power forward or center putting up 40 shots shooting 60+% and never going t the line are very unlikely.

[SuitedAces21]

http://sports.espn.g...mp;sportCat=nba

[BigDMcGee]

SuitedAces21, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 5:39 PM, said:

http://sports.espn.g...mp;sportCat=nba

I've been waiting for the sports guy's reaction, and i'm getting rather pizzed that he hasn't said anythign yet. Stupid ncaa tourney.***Edit*** that woman just said the unsayable. I hope God has mercy on her.

[princeof56k]

Here's a quote from that link above:

Quote

Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.

I'd put some more quotes out there but the ENTIRE article is ridiculous. I'm slightly surprised someone has that opinion. I'm more surprised that someone like that actually gets paid to write about basketball. That pisses me off.Hey I liked Kobe's streak, but lets not get crazy here.

[keith crime]

princeof56k, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 5:47 PM, said:

Here's a quote from that link above:I'd put some more quotes out there but the ENTIRE article is ridiculous. I'm slightly surprised someone has that opinion. I'm more surprised that someone like that actually gets paid to write about basketball. That pisses me off.Hey I liked Kobe's streak, but lets not get crazy here.

It's a silly statement but hey she was probably 12 when jordan playedface it people forget and eventually we;re all oldsters talking about willie mays

[princeof56k]

keith crime, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 5:51 PM, said:

It's a silly statement but hey she was probably 12 when jordan playedface it people forget and eventually we;re all oldsters talking about willie mays

Good point, but this is not just an average Joe or fair weather fan. Its a sports writer. I would expect someone like that to know what they're talking about. She's actually trying to approach it from a historical perspective. And its not just the one quote, its the whole thing. There's some funny stuff in there. At least she's consistant though.Besides, the Bulls and Jordan wona title in 1998 (less than 10 years ago).

[keith crime]

princeof56k, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 5:59 PM, said:

Good point, but this is not just an average Joe or fair weather fan. Its a sports writer. I would expect someone like that to know what they're talking about. She's actually trying to approach it from a historical perspective. And its not just the one quote, its the whole thing. There's some funny stuff in there. At least she's consistant though.Besides, the Bulls and Jordan wona title in 1998 (less than 10 years ago).

well yeah but Jordan 1998 wasn't Jordan nearly at his peak if you didn't see him for the first three titles you didn't really see him 93-96plus 1. being a sportswriter doesn't preclude you from being and writing stupid stuff2. sportswriters always write this c rap because they either want to seem provacative or face it if you can't write that the new guy is the best who wants to read about the new guybut seriously using a guy playing for a sixth seed teams 5 game streak to say he's the best ever is really lame- and if Kobe has a problem with it - he shouldn't have chased shaq out of town - all that D Wade press playing next to a gimpy fat shaq qould be hiseven if its a match physically would you take kobe's head over michael's?

[Jadaki]

MJ rolls with Charles Oakley as a personal hitman... he doesn't have to lift a finger to make sure Kobe will never be considered better than him.

[BigDMcGee]

keith crime, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 6:26 PM, said:

well yeah but Jordan 1998 wasn't Jordan nearly at his peak if you didn't see him for the first three titles you didn't really see him 93-96plus 1. being a sportswriter doesn't preclude you from being and writing stupid stuff2. sportswriters always write this c rap because they either want to seem provacative or face it if you can't write that the new guy is the best who wants to read about the new guybut seriously using a guy playing for a sixth seed teams 5 game streak to say he's the best ever is really lame- and if Kobe has a problem with it - he shouldn't have chased shaq out of town - all that D Wade press playing next to a gimpy fat shaq qould be hiseven if its a match physically would you take kobe's head over michael's?

Yeah, but there is also the phenomenon of the guy of your youth, always being THE guy.. and no guy, afterwards, will ever be as good. Like for example my dad. The will never be another guy as good as Johnny U. No matter home many rings brady gets, Unitas is better. No matter how many yards Marino throws for, Unitas is better. No matter how many comebacks elway and montana lead their team to, Unitas always will be the king of the comeback. Forever. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't dare right the blasphemy that this woman did. But, I think that jordan was so great, and made such an impression on our minds in our youth, that it will be very hard for any of us ever to admit that another player that comes along is better.

[keith crime]

BigDMcGee, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 8:46 PM, said:

Yeah, but there is also the phenomenon of the guy of your youth, always being THE guy.. and no guy, afterwards, will ever be as good. Like for example my dad. The will never be another guy as good as Johnny U. No matter home many rings brady gets, Unitas is better. No matter how many yards Marino throws for, Unitas is better. No matter how many comebacks elway and montana lead their team to, Unitas always will be the king of the comeback. Forever. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't dare right the blasphemy that this woman did. But, I think that jordan was so great, and made such an impression on our minds in our youth, that it will be very hard for any of us ever to admit that another player that comes along is better.

i agree and i'm 41 and was living in chicago during michaels prime - actually i lived in LA during kobe's championship years tooactually when I look at le bron i think he has the potential - (dirty word) Kobe is great thoughMy LA friend does claim that Kobe doesn't get the calls michael got - i'm open to hear debate on that

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 11:35 PM, said:

My LA friend does claim that Kobe doesn't get the calls michael got - i'm open to hear debate on that

Your LA friend is just crying about the Bulls owning the Lakers in 91.

[BigDMcGee]

keith crime, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 9:35 PM, said:

i agree and i'm 41 and was living in chicago during michaels prime - actually i lived in LA during kobe's championship years tooactually when I look at le bron i think he has the potential - (dirty word) Kobe is great thoughMy LA friend does claim that Kobe doesn't get the calls michael got - i'm open to hear debate on that

Kobe gets plenty of calls... but.. no one, ever, in the history of the league got the calls that Jordan got. That takes nothing away from his talent, but lets be real.

[princeof56k]

keith crime, on Monday, March 26th, 2007, 9:35 PM, said:

My LA friend does claim that Kobe doesn't get the calls michael got - i'm open to hear debate on that

Long Post. I have too much time on my hands.I think this is an interesting topic. Everyone seem to think, like BigDMcGee, that Jordan got more calls that anyone. I'm not sure that's entirely true.First, its tough to even measure that, but the only historical stat that comes remotely close is free throw attempts per game (FTAPG). Even then you have to look at that in proportion to how many shots they put up (FGAPG).I'm convinced that Jordan got that rep from the 86-87 season when he had 11.9 FTAPG. I even remember Magic making a comment about how you cant touch Mike when he's got the ball. Jordan averaged 9.1 in 1984-85, 10.5 in 1987-88, and 9.8 in 1988-89. After that he numbers were much more average. He never broke the 9 barrier again. More importantly his FTAPG were not unusual during his championship years.If you look back there were other guys that did have a high amount of FTAPG consistantly. IMO, Karl Malone got way more calls and he played at the same time as Jordan. Here's a look at a few players with their career FGAPG and FTAPG (I'm only including guys that could actually hit free throws. So guys like Wilt and Shaq are left off because teams intentionally put them on the line).Player FGAPG FTAPGJordan 22.9 8.2Kobe 18.4 7.3Malone 17.8 8.9DRobinson 14.4 8.3West 20.4 9.4ORobinson 18.9 8.8Pettit 21.3 10.3When you look at those numbers, you might actaully argue that Jordan didnt go to the line enough. So I have a hard time saying he got more calls than anyone in history.When you look at the Kobe-Jordan comparison, some important things should be mentioned. First, Kobe hasnt always been a star. When he played with Shaq, he didnt get hounded nearly as much as he does today. But he has been the man for the last few years. Remember how Jordan only broke the 9 FTAPG barrier 4 times. Well Kobe has averaged just over 10 the last 2 years and should get 10 again this season. I'll bet he averages a high number of attempts next season as well. Thats doesnt sound all that different to me.Second, Jordan didnt play with todays rules. Defenders could actually hold people on the perimeter. And if you went into the lane, watch out (no flagrant fouls back then). The Pistons and Knicks openly admitted to trying to beat Jordan up. Trust me Jordan was getting fouled and fouled often. Once again, you could say he didnt get enough calls.People in Kobe's camp will say the zone defense exist today. That's true, but it's only made the game tougher for post players. Thats because of what I call the Dwayne Wade rule: Charge into the lane, run into the nearest STATIONARY post defender, and then go to the line. I actually see shot blockers jumping away from the offensive player. In Jordans day that contact was part of the game. (For the record, I like todays rules overall).I'd say that Kobe and Jordan get/got about the same amount of calls, and that Jordan didn't get more calls than everyone else.

[SuitedAces21]

I think we ought to pretend that yesterdays game never happened. Yep, thats the thing to do.

[Poppy_Hillis]

99% of the players in the league couldn't even get 35 shot attempts, let alone in the flow of the game in a winning cause.

[Jadaki]

princeof56k, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 9:44 PM, said:

Long Post. I have too much time on my hands.

Glad you did the research so I didn't have to, excellent post.

[BigDMcGee]

yeah, I think the point about the rules changes is an excellent one. Jordan in his prime would have averaged 36-40 points a game under these rules.

[princeof56k]

Wow! Wild game last night. Kobe went off for 53 and they still lost, but it did go to OT. And Odom had 16 pts and 17 boards. Tough loss for the Lakers.Of course, my team had its own guy go off. Yao was unstoppable down low scoring 39 pts, grabbing 11 boards, and getting 4 blocks. McGrady didnt shoot too well but did score 30. More importantly he had 10 assist. Big win for the Rockets.