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A7s To A Push


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#21 Actuary

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:27 PM

View PostIQCrash, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 2:47 PM, said:

Meh. Even playing big stack poker when you're deep, I just don't see raising with A7s from E/MP - too many people left to act behind you. I don't like the pf raise at all. If you were in the hijack, CO, or Button it's an easy raise. From your position, it's an easy fold.
You go from Easy fold in MP1 to Easy Raise in MP3 wih big stack and As7s.regardless of whether it's good or bad, it's absolutely ridiculous to go from one extreme to another in 2 spots with our stack. ludichris

View Posttrystero, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 2:51 PM, said:

You can't pretend he didn't say that, though, if you've got his quote nested in your post. Love starts with you, Sir.
If I were him, I"d change it to "bite mine"But that's because I'm funny and don't take me seriously.

#22 IQCrash

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:37 PM

View PostActuary, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 3:27 PM, said:

You go from Easy fold in MP1 to Easy Raise in MP3 wih big atack and As7s.regardless of whether it's good or bad, it's absolutely ridiculous to go from one extreme to another in 2 spots with our stack. ludichris
You're wrong.In MP1 you have 6 people to act behind you.In MP3 you have 4 people to act behind you.That's a third less players to deal with, making it absolutely not ridiculous to go from an easy fold to an easy raise.

#23 Actuary

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:53 PM

View PostIQCrash, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 3:37 PM, said:

You're wrong.
I can count.Poker is not so clearly defined.But keep thinking that way.Our stack is big enough to limp this from UTG at the right tableit's certainly not "wrong" to point out that your plays are too clear cut for 2 postions. See our stack? You also have no reads on table (except we are aggressive and BB is quiet)You are looking sillyPreflop is pretty unimportant right here, within reasonable plays.your turn

#24 IQCrash

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:56 PM

I'm just going to agree to disagree with you here, Actuary.

#25 Actuary

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 04:00 PM

View PostIQCrash, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 3:56 PM, said:

I'm just going to agree to disagree with you here, Actuary.
well, that's better than just saying "You're Wrong".so I'll live with that:D

#26 Briguy

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 05:09 AM

View Postgoheels, on Tuesday, October 31st, 2006, 7:04 PM, said:

Ok, so clearly this thread is not getting much good discussion going. I actually wasn't invovled in this hand. I was railing a friend of mine in the 100r and it came up with a very well known player. Is this kind of play that seperates the KWOB's of the world from everyone else, or is he just a luckbox that makes bad decisions but wins every race?PokerStars Game #6842193965: Tournament #34619044, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/10/31 - 15:28:33 (ET)Table '34619044 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: DAJ6666 (8225 in chips) Seat 2: kwob20 (18670 in chips) Seat 4: RandALLin (14905 in chips) Seat 5: karecon (9260 in chips) Seat 6: jochen8 (4250 in chips) Seat 7: FrozenVeins (9230 in chips) Seat 8: ZULEH (3720 in chips) Seat 9: jpa_25 (5605 in chips) FrozenVeins: posts small blind 75ZULEH: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***jpa_25: folds DAJ6666: folds kwob20: raises 300 to 450RandALLin: folds karecon: folds jochen8: folds FrozenVeins: folds ZULEH: raises 3270 to 3720 and is all-inkwob20: calls 3270*** FLOP *** [Jh As 6s]*** TURN *** [Jh As 6s] [2c]*** RIVER *** [Jh As 6s 2c] [Qc]*** SHOW DOWN ***ZULEH: shows [4s 4d] (a pair of Fours)kwob20: shows [7d Ad] (a pair of Aces)kwob20 collected 7515 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 7515 | Rake 0 Board [Jh As 6s 2c Qc]Seat 1: DAJ6666 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: kwob20 showed [7d Ad] and won (7515) with a pair of AcesSeat 4: RandALLin folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: karecon folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jochen8 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: FrozenVeins (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: ZULEH (big blind) showed [4s 4d] and lost with a pair of FoursSeat 9: jpa_25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
KWOB put your friend on a resteal, is all. That's usually a bad decision, but it could be a good read-based call.The lesson: Don't resteal from known LAGs wielding a big stack with low pocket pairs.
I should change this.

#27 pokerfan1080

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 05:23 AM

Big stack raises probably with the intentions to steal. His stack is big enough to deal with the stack that is playing back at him.Even if he loses, he is still left with alot of chips.This just seems like big stack against small stack who can't really hurt us play. yes/no?
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#28 trystero

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:28 AM

View Postpokerfan1080, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 8:23 AM, said:

Big stack raises probably with the intentions to steal. His stack is big enough to deal with the stack that is playing back at him.Even if he loses, he is still left with alot of chips.This just seems like big stack against small stack who can't really hurt us play. yes/no?
Kwob's not getting the odds to call here with an easily dominated hand. Villain's stack is still 1/5 of Kwob's - that's not an insignificant figure. Loose calls like this are why big stacks become small.But like Briguy said villain's push is also bad. Kwob is likely calling and does villain really want to race with 44? And I really doubt that kwob will lay down 55.

#29 trystero

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:29 AM

View Postpokerfan1080, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 8:23 AM, said:

Big stack raises probably with the intentions to steal. His stack is big enough to deal with the stack that is playing back at him.Even if he loses, he is still left with alot of chips.This just seems like big stack against small stack who can't really hurt us play. yes/no?
Kwob's not getting the odds to call here with an easily dominated hand. Villain's stack is still 1/5 of his - that's not an insignificant figure. Loose calls like this are why big stacks needlessly become small.But like Briguy said villain's push is also bad. Kwob is likely calling and does villain really want to race with 44? And I really doubt that kwob will lay down 55.

#30 goheels

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:39 AM

The guy who pushed from the BB was not my friend, I have no idea who he is. Don't think I'm posting this b/c I'm bitter he knocked out someone I know with what HAS to be a terrible call.The tide of this thread seems to be changing since I revealed who the actual hero was...interesting.

#31 trystero

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:49 AM

View Postgoheels, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 9:39 AM, said:

The guy who pushed from the BB was not my friend, I have no idea who he is. Don't think I'm posting this b/c I'm bitter he knocked out someone I know with what HAS to be a terrible call.The tide of this thread seems to be changing since I revealed who the actual hero was...interesting.
It is interesting isn't it? Reveal hero's identity and suddenly there are rationalizations for why this play is acceptable. It's a bad call, no two ways about it.

#32 simo_8ball

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:50 AM

View Postgoheels, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 2:39 PM, said:

The tide of this thread seems to be changing since I revealed who the actual hero was...interesting.
It's a bad call unless he has a solid read.

#33 Fade2241

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 06:55 AM

muck chuck

#34 Briguy

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 07:06 AM

Hey, I never said I would play the hand like Kwob. I'm only Lag from late positions, unless the table conditions are tight-weak-passive. But I see steal-happy LAGs making bad calls with AXs all the time, which is why I prefer to "resteal" from them with higher pockets or strong A's.44 is definitely not in my range to push against a call-happy LAG.
I should change this.

#35 pokerfan1080

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 07:32 AM

View Postgoheels, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 10:39 AM, said:

The guy who pushed from the BB was not my friend, I have no idea who he is. Don't think I'm posting this b/c I'm bitter he knocked out someone I know with what HAS to be a terrible call.The tide of this thread seems to be changing since I revealed who the actual hero was...interesting.
I don't know who kwob is, never heard of the screen name until today. Who is he?His M Is huge and even if he loses his M will be very high. Not sure what the average stack is, but I suspect it's fairly low. 1/5th of your stack with an M that's through the roof seems acceptable to me, unless his Q is low, which I suspect is not the case.
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#36 Briguy

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:02 AM

My non-subscriber (i.e. limited) Sharkscope search has kwob as a losing player over 158 games. That may explain the hand a little. :club:
I should change this.

#37 goheels

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:12 AM

KWOB's DB

#38 trystero

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:14 AM

View PostBriguy, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 11:02 AM, said:

My non-subscriber (i.e. limited) Sharkscope search has kwob as a losing player over 158 games. That may explain the hand a little. :D
He's actually a great player. 158 games is rather insignificant (I think you were just joking though :club:

#39 Actuary

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 09:01 AM

View Postpokerfan1080, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 7:32 AM, said:

His M Is huge and even if he loses his M will be very high. Not sure what the average stack is, but I suspect it's fairly low. 1/5th of your stack with an M that's through the roof seems acceptable to me, unless his Q is low, which I suspect is not the case.
that logic sucks.we don't take that obvious -cEV decisions just because we have a big stack.If we were eliminating someone at a bubble point, sure.But sluffing off 20% of your stack just because you can spare it, is bad.my opinion never wavered.

#40 Briguy

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 09:41 AM

View Posttrystero, on Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

He's actually a great player. 158 games is rather insignificant (I think you were just joking though :club:
Not really. I can only comment on the hard info in front of me. I don't subscribe to the Poker DB either, so that link doesn't help me. I don't like this A7s play myself, but I can understand it if KWOB has a read that the 44 guy will resteal light.
I should change this.




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