Overbetting Draws

[trystero 0]

gobears' thread with A6s got me thinking about a hand I played a while back. No HH, going from memory. Read on villain is that he's very ABC. Too aggro? Full Tilt $10 MTT FT, 8 remaining, 600/1200, ante 150Hero ~32000Villain ~35000Hero is dealt J 3 in the COHero raises to 36002 foldsVillain calls 2400Flop Q 9 5 Villain checksHero shoves

[Briguy 0]

Seems a bit much to me. A standard 3/4 c-bet of 5000 probably has the same FE as a shove, given your stacks. If he raises a c-bet, you are about 35/65 against a legit hand, so it may be a fold, call, or push depending on the raise size.

[mk 11]

i've pretty much given up on trying to make people fold in any mtt with a buy-in of less than $30. just serious.and in this hand, free cards are sweet. take them.

[Actuary 3]

I'm a shove happy guy, and I don't shove this.Depending on reads of BB, I'll fire 4000 or checkThis flop probably missed him.If you have been stealing and cb's a lot, then I check behind, if for any reason, we'd suspect a c/r.If BB is loose and call station, I check behind.

[Fade2241 0]

I agree with the other replies – I would probably c-bet the flop 4800, fold to a raise and check it down if I miss.A push is silly because he calls us with anything that has us dominated.

[IQCrash 1]

I'm also a shove-happy kinda guy, but shoving a jack high flush on a queen high board? No. As mk said, free cards are a beautiful thing - see if you can get yourself a free T/ on the turn then shove

[tskillz187 0]

Don't push.Don't check.Standard C-bet in my opinion, If he c/r you, get away. If he smooth calls, check behind on the turn (if you miss).So much safer to win with the C-Bet, plus you build a big pot when he has AQ and "traps" you by smooth calling flop, checking turn, and you catching up on river, which is pretty much my favorite thing in the world.

[trystero 0]

K, I figured that everyone would say c/bet and fold to a c/r. And that's the ideal line against most opponents. I normally don't overbet like this because there's obviously so much risk involved. However, I felt that I had a strong read on villain. Basically he was what I was after I began studying poker - ABC to the max, including strict calling requirements. I knew I wasn't getting a call from marginal hands here and that I could get a hand as strong as QJ to fold. Back then I always assumed monsters under the bed - pf raiser, Q high flop, he could easily have an aggro AQ or QQ+. By pushing I forced him to have a big enough hand to call off his tournament life. He could c/r with TP or a draw, taking the pot away from me - but he could not call off with those hands. Against a horrible player or a player capable of making big calls, this move is unquestionably suicidal. In the end he used up most of his time bank and folded, claiming to have held 'a huge draw.'Despite my read and the result I still had reservations that it was too risky - hence, the post.

[Actuary 3]

I think it's interesting how as one evolves in poker;- call all ins with marginal hands, not relizing the diff between calling and pushing- read a book. Don't call loosely, Start cussing fish who won't lay down to big bets- play more. Start shoving draws into players who read a book- play more. Start occassionally calling players who shove into players they think have read a bookWhat used to be a fish play is now a brilliant big call.There's rhyme and reason behind the BigCalls vs the early days "I have TP, I should call" mentality; but to the untrained 1-book player, stuck on "I'm never calling off my chips with XX on the X hand of the tourney", it looks similar. thank goodness.