Positional Play, Higher Level Thinking, Thoughts?

[Dratj 0]

Full Tilt Poker Game #1167352436: Double Stack $30 + $3 (7734622), Table 34 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:12:12 ET - 2006/10/29Seat 1: sqnutz (13,025)Seat 2: tffloors (2,315)Seat 3: NickPoker (3,870)Seat 4: Dratj (5,400)Seat 5: zinc20 (9,675)Seat 6: cavelover55 (1,270)Seat 7: rricsal (8,335)Seat 8: ChapstickMike (11,190)Seat 9: dci981 (5,260)rricsal posts the small blind of 60ChapstickMike posts the big blind of 120The button is in seat #6*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Dratj [8s 9h]dci981 calls 120sqnutz foldstffloors foldsNickPoker foldsDratj calls 120zinc20 foldscavelover55 foldsrricsal calls 60ChapstickMike checks*** FLOP *** [Qs 8h 6s]rricsal checksChapstickMike checksdci981 bets 120Dratj calls 120rricsal foldsChapstickMike folds*** TURN *** [Qs 8h 6s] [Ad]dci981 checksDratj bets 600dci981 calls 600*** RIVER *** [Qs 8h 6s Ad] [4h]dci981 checksDratj bets 1,560?

[offset 0]

I don't understand. Are you bluffing or value betting? Qx calls way too often and villain does not have 99-jj enough to make this bet profitable. If he folds you would have won the pot by checking.

[trystero 0]

Looks like he's holding a Q. I'd fold it but many players wouldn't. Unless you've got a good read on the player I say you should check behind.

[Dratj 0]

I don't understand. Are you bluffing or value betting? Qx calls way too often and villain does not have 99-jj enough to make this bet profitable. If he folds you would have won the pot by checking.

Bluffing. His check check indicates weakness, so I'm going to put the pressure on and make him call a pot size bet with a Q if he has one. I know he doesn't have the Ace because he checked the turn.

[GrinderMJ 0]

I like it a lot Dratj, I think he folds qx here often enough for this hand to be profitable and as long as you have a reasonable mix of hands that beat qx here occasionally, this play is +ev. I like.

[TheCinciKid 0]

I actually really dislike the pre-flop call.

[mk 11]

standard? heh. seriously, totally fine. i especially like it because of villain's stack size. he can fold the river with all medium strength hands and have plenty of chips left to work with. i do think, however, that if he's folding for 1500 on the end, he'd fold for 1100-1200. would sell the play as a value bet a little more as well.

[Actuary 3]

convert.not that anyone cares, apparently

[Dratj 0]

I actually really dislike the pre-flop call.

Implied odds. Think outside the box.

[mk 11]

convert.not that anyone cares, apparently

Full Tilt Poker No Limit Holdem Double Stack $30 + $3 Blinds: $60/$120 9 players Converter Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checks. Flop: :) ($480, 4 players) SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $120, Hero calls, 2 folds. Turn: ($720, 2 players) UTG checks, Hero bets $600, UTG calls. River: ($1920, 2 players) UTG checks, Hero bets $1560.

[IQCrash 1]

If he's calling you down with 79 or a flush draw, you can win in a showdown. If he caught his ace on the turn, he's likely calling you on the river. The only hand you can realistically push around on the river is Qx, maybe - but it looks like he's intent on calling you down. If he has a busted draw, you're winning at showdown anyway and he's not calling anything on the river. Like I said, you're only pushing Qx off their hand here, and that's not often enough.Check behind on the river.

[Actuary 3]

Thanks!now I should opine read based play.I like it.I don't have balls to do it.I dont do well in MTT"smay be a corrrelation.

[tskillz187 0]

Thanks!now I should opine read based play.I like it.I don't have balls to do it.I dont do well in MTT"smay be a corrrelation.

Nah, almost all good MTT players are pretty tight. These plays are hard to be successful with at a high rate, especially with all the donks calling off their stacks PF with AQ, etc.I don't like the turn or river bet here, both are too big, IMO. If you are going to go through with the bluff, value bet both, don't pot the turn and then get a little shy with the river, in regards to potting it. It lacks consistency.I'd bet like 400 on turn and then 900-1000 on the river.

[shpaget 0]

Nah, almost all good MTT players are pretty tight. These plays are hard to be successful with at a high rate, especially with all the donks calling off their stacks PF with AQ, etc.I don't like the turn or river bet here, both are too big, IMO. If you are going to go through with the bluff, value bet both, don't pot the turn and then get a little shy with the river, in regards to potting it. It lacks consistency.I'd bet like 400 on turn and then 900-1000 on the river.

His turn bet is 83% of the pot...his river bet is 81% of the pot...how is that inconsistent?

[tskillz187 0]

His turn bet is 83% of the pot...his river bet is 81% of the pot...how is that inconsistent?

Duh, you have it right in your question.Do those numbers look the same?My bad, thought he potted the turn, format that ish quicker OP!

[GrinderMJ 0]

Tskillz, I think a lot of your ideas in this thread are kind of misguided. I disagree with the idea that most successful MTT players are tight. There are a TON of winning LAG tournament poker players. Certainly this hand isn't standard, but as long the stacks are deep enough and he has a reasonable read/history with villain, and he mixes in some value bets playing the hand the same way, this a good play.

[tskillz187 0]

Tskillz, I think a lot of your ideas in this thread are kind of misguided. I disagree with the idea that most successful MTT players are tight. There are a TON of winning LAG tournament poker players.

I'm referring to online MTT's and I'm assuming you are too. Nah, there aren't that many LAGs that are very successful. It's impressive when they are, it's very difficult to play that way, a la prtypsux.

[simo_8ball 1]

I would agree that the majority of successful tourney players are tight, but the very best tourney players are LAG.

[pokerfan1080 0]

All too often I see plays like this when villain has middle or bottom pair on the flop with A kicker, has middle pocket pair, or has hit a set and is letting you dig your own grave.Villain feigning weakness is always a concern in these situations.

[Dratj 0]

All too often I see plays like this when villain has middle or bottom pair on the flop with A kicker, has middle pocket pair, or has hit a set and is letting you dig your own grave.Villain feigning weakness is always a concern in these situations.

If I get check raised it's an easy fold. Villian ended up folding to my river bet but probably had me beat. If I check it down, I likely don't pick up those chips.