99, The Great One

[LongLiveYorke 38]

PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.508 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $31.70UTG+1: $69.10MP1: $45.95MP2: $71.75CO: $53.20Yorke: $49.25SB: $61.80BB: $51.30Pre-flop: (8 players) Yorke is Button with 9 9 :club:UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Yorke raises to $1.5, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.Flop: 7 6 4 ($8.25, 5 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Yorke bets $5.5, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO raises to $11, Yorke??So, what could he have here, and how often is it not a set? And what do we do?

[Jdr999 0]

1. Don't like the small pre-flop raise with 4 limpers. I just call, but if I was going to raise, make in at $2.52. Fold on flop. Doesn't have to be a set to have you beat. Could have 2 pair, or overcards and flush draw.

[David_Nicoson 1]

PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.508 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $31.70UTG+1: $69.10MP1: $45.95MP2: $71.75CO: $53.20Yorke: $49.25SB: $61.80BB: $51.30Pre-flop: (8 players) Yorke is Button with 9 9 :club:UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Yorke raises to $1.5, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.Flop: 7 6 4 ($8.25, 5 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Yorke bets $5.5, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO raises to $11, Yorke??So, what could he have here, and how often is it not a set? And what do we do?

If he doesn't have us beat already, he has a good shot at it by the river. As played, I fold to the raise. There's no point trying to force the issue with one pair on this flop, given the whole herd of people who called the preflop sweetener.

[EurekaKid 0]

Pretty standard fold unless they are a complete nutcase.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Pretty standard fold unless they are a complete nutcase.

Okay, just checking that this was a standard fold.Anyway, do we think that I should have raised more preflop. My raise was intended both as a pot sweetener should I hit a set and as a means of somewhat cheaply giving me control of the hand in case undercards fell so a continuation bet would be believable.Should I be going more for isolation with a larger bet against a lot of limpers? Any ideas?

[EurekaKid 0]

Okay, just checking that this was a standard fold.Anyway, do we think that I should have raised more preflop. My raise was intended both as a pot sweetener should I hit a set and as a means of somewhat cheaply giving me control of the hand in case undercards fell so a continuation bet would be believable.Should I be going more for isolation with a larger bet against a lot of limpers? Any ideas?

I like to raise 4x BB plus 1x BB for every limper already in the pot. Raise the same as you would with any other hand that you are first in raising with. Sometimes I notice that my opponents raise smaller amounts when they hold small and middle pairs, even min raising sometimes, your opponents will catch on. Having a standard raise you use for everything from 78s to AA is what I believe to be optimal strategy.

[simo_8ball 1]

Having a standard raise you use for everything from 78s to AA is what I believe to be optimal strategy.

Depends how you define 'optimal'. In terms of game theory you are correct, but it is an entirely unexploitative strategy. Against anything but a perfect player this is actually suboptimal.Extreme example to illustrate: if someone will call a 200xbb raise with KK when you have AA then your optimal raise in that specific situation is 200xbb.I'm only arguing semantics though. I opt for the same strategy, but usually I go for 2.5xbb rather than 4xbb.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Okay, just checking that this was a standard fold.Anyway, do we think that I should have raised more preflop. My raise was intended both as a pot sweetener should I hit a set and as a means of somewhat cheaply giving me control of the hand in case undercards fell so a continuation bet would be believable.Should I be going more for isolation with a larger bet against a lot of limpers? Any ideas?

I'm usually going to either limp behind or make a larger raise. We'd certainly be disappointed for someone to put in a serious re-raise. It's not an entirely bad idea, though. In fact, Skansky/Miller seem to like it a lot.It is fairly clear to me, though, that we have to consider this flop a miss for us with this many callers. There's just no hand we're crushing here, but several that have us crushed. I'm much more inclined to get stubborn with one pair when the field is smaller.

[davezz5 0]

Okay, just checking that this was a standard fold.Anyway, do we think that I should have raised more preflop. My raise was intended both as a pot sweetener should I hit a set and as a means of somewhat cheaply giving me control of the hand in case undercards fell so a continuation bet would be believable.Should I be going more for isolation with a larger bet against a lot of limpers? Any ideas?

Any PP is a brittle hand, obviously 99 is more brittle than AA, and to play this hands sucessfully you need to thin the field. Ideally you would like to be heads up pre-flop, therefore you need to raise more to clear out those limpersIf you were in early position it is conceivable a 3x raise may achieve this because you are defining your hand to your opponents, but with opponents having already invested into this pot you need to give them reason to fold.The alternate way of playing 22.....JJ in late position is limping yourself, taking a cheap flop, in the hope of hitting a set. By raising more pre-flop it also helps you define your opponents hands, making decisions on the flop more straight forward.