How Much Money Do You Flip A Coin For?

[cwik 0]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.50/$15 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $105.70CO: $90.20Hero: $128.50SB: $52.55BB: $204.30Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with UTG calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.Flop: :D ($4, 4 players)SB checks, BB bets $4, UTG calls, Hero raises to $16, SB folds, BB raises to $49, UTG folds, Hero raises all-in $127.5, BB calls.Turn: ($263, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $263)River: ($263, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $263)Results:Final pot: $263

[Jordan 1]

you're better than 50/50 here unless he has a higher fd...if he has a set i think youre a 3:2 dog, dont feel like checking right now...maybe 2:1...regardless this hand is played fine.- Jordan

[bdc30 0]

I prolly flat call the flop. Reevaluate on the turn.But I'm passive.

[Zach6668 513]

Shovel.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

I made the same play with an OESFD ten days ago. A player bet $15 on the flop. I raised to $40. He raised to $125. I pushed for around $500. He folded top pair, top kicker. I knew that he was a smart player and I was happy to take the pot, or if he called. I was about a 55:45 favorite.If your villain flopped a set, you were about a 58:42 underdog. My all in was enough of a bet to make him lay it down. Your all in had him pot committed.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I prolly flat call the flop. Reevaluate on the turn.But I'm passive.

When you have an OESD and a flush draw, the worst shape that you'll ever really find yourself in is a 3-2 dog, and that's against a set or a bigger flush draw. Most of the time you find yourself at 50/50 or better.The best part about playing the monster draw AGGRESSIVELY is that you know where you're at in the hand and you KNOW that you can't be in much trouble. Your opponent on the other hand will have to worry that you've flopped a set becuase you're so eager to put money into the pot.You'd obviously rather take it down on the flop because it'll show a higher yield in the long run since you never have to make your draw, but if you're called, you don't mind that either. Much of the strength comes from playing aggressively and getting opponents to lay down hands that beat you.Excellent push on the flop. It takes a really big hand to call you there, and you could've picked up a decent pot without a showdown. Well played.

[cwik 0]

Oppenent showed 6 7 for the flopped straight. So I was a 53% favorite, but bricked.

[MasterLJ 0]

It depends on the circumstances.Generally speaking, you are able to extract more from big hands in a live game as opposed to online, so make your hand as cheaply as possible and extract if you hit. You could have gotten to see the turn and the river for probably $15.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Oppenent showed 6 7 for the flopped straight. So I was a 53% favorite, but bricked.

Results don't matter. In a cash game you always wanna get your money in when you have an edge. He happened to flop the nuts. He'd fold a lot of other hands.

[EurekaKid 0]

I have no problem with the way you played the hand and probably would have played it the same myself... On deeper analysis it was an unraised pot pre-flop, the BB (unless he's a complete nutjob) announces that he has a hand, either a set or a straight, when he re-raises to $49. At this point you've committed $17 and still have $110 behind you, its unlikely you are getttng him to fold. We know that at best you are a coin flip, if not a slight dog and we can be pretty sure that we are getting called if we re-raise. I'm pretty sure you realise all this since the topic is how much do you flip a coin for. And this hand is fine if you are happy with this kind of variance, but I'm just pointing out you don't HAVE to go with it. I dunno, just pointing out that in an unraised pot your opponent is going to have nuts or near nuts to dance with you. The edge you get with aggressive play of OESFD is when you play aggressively and push your opponent out, not when you create a huge pot against a strong opponent.At the same time I agree, you can only get your money in good. Tough hand

[Jdr999 0]

I hate the limp on the button in a 5-handed game when it's folded to you with JTs. Please raise next time, they might have folded 76 out of position. Have to push when they re-raise. You just can't call on the flop when you will have about half of what you started the hand with in the pot with such a huge draw.

[cwik 0]

I hate the limp on the button in a 5-handed game when it's folded to you with JTs. Please raise next time, they might have folded 76 out of position. Have to push when they re-raise. You just can't call on the flop when you will have about half of what you started the hand with in the pot with such a huge draw.

I don't know if I agree here. If I limp here, I know it is going to be at least a 3 way pot, prolley 4. I'd rather get in cheaply with suited connectors, if I hit, I have position for the rest of the hand, basically the same way I play most small pairs. If I was out of position I'd probably raise prefolp, however I don't really like raising with J high out of position in the first place.Now if I raise, and get called here, I know I'm gonna be behind. I can still play position, but this is no differnt then if i raised with 9 2 off.

[Jdr999 0]

I don't know if I agree here. If I limp here, I know it is going to be at least a 3 way pot, prolley 4. I'd rather get in cheaply with suited connectors, if I hit, I have position for the rest of the hand, basically the same way I play most small pairs. If I was out of position I'd probably raise prefolp, however I don't really like raising with J high out of position in the first place.Now if I raise, and get called here, I know I'm gonna be behind. I can still play position, but this is no differnt then if i raised with 9 2 off.

All of this make no sence at all. First off, you have a much better change to win the pot by aggression if you raise pre-flop and bet out on the flop if checked too. If you raise pre-flop, you narrow the amount of players, which means you have a greater chance to win the pot with hving to hit the flop.Then you confuse your self by saying:

If I was out of position I'd probably raise prefolp, however I don't really like raising with J high out of position in the first place.

It's much worse to raise out of position with JT than in position. Also, please don't view how strong a hand is by the highest card when taking about No Limit Hold'em. This is a fine logic for limit, but not for no-limit. Also, this is not about if you are behind pre-flop. This is about you position post-flop with possible one player if you raise rather than three. Lastly, their is a difference between raising with 92 and JT. 92 is a garbage hand and would be a pure bluff, while JTs is a very strong hand in No-Limit, and I rate it above some other hands (AJ-A2) because of it's potential to make big hands. For example, if someone in this hand had two 5's vs your JTs, you would be ahead pre-flop, 52% to 47%. If you had 92o vs. two 5's, the 5's would be ahead pre-flop 69% to 29%. So please don't say raising here with JTs is the same as 92o, because it isn't.

[cwik 0]

All of this make no sence at all. First off, you have a much better change to win the pot by aggression if you raise pre-flop and bet out on the flop if checked too. If you raise pre-flop, you narrow the amount of players, which means you have a greater chance to win the pot with hving to hit the flop.Then you confuse your self by saying:It's much worse to raise out of position with JT than in position. Also, please don't view how strong a hand is by the highest card when taking about No Limit Hold'em. This is a fine logic for limit, but not for no-limit. Also, this is not about if you are behind pre-flop. This is about you position post-flop with possible one player if you raise rather than three. Lastly, their is a difference between raising with 92 and JT. 92 is a garbage hand and would be a pure bluff, while JTs is a very strong hand in No-Limit, and I rate it above some other hands (AJ-A2) because of it's potential to make big hands. For example, if someone in this hand had two 5's vs your JTs, you would be ahead pre-flop, 52% to 47%. If you had 92o vs. two 5's, the 5's would be ahead pre-flop 69% to 29%. So please don't say raising here with JTs is the same as 92o, because it isn't.

I understand what your saying with agression, and of course agression is going to win most hands. What I'm saying is there are times to limp in NL Hold'em. Gernerally this is with small pairs or suited connectors, that can hit big, but are ussally not going to win the hand otherwise. Personally, with hands like these I think it is better to get in cheaply to see if you hit a draw (thats basically what your looking for, as flopping a ten high board your still not really that strong), then play it accordingly (I know the value of a draw and am willing to play them agressive as you can see above). This is rather then building the pot preflop which I'd rather do with JJ. What is ironic is I atually think my push on the end would seem weaker had I raised prefolp, as it would decrease my range of hands I held, but that is irrelvent really, cause yes I prolley woulda pushed 76 out of the hand. But the point here is if I'm going to chase with a drawing hand like JTs, I want more poeple in the hand because it raises my EV if I hit.I also know that there are times to mix up your play, but here I'm mostly talking about gerneral term and really at this limit and the amount of hands people ussally sit at a table online, mixing it up doesn't really give you that big of an advantage. Also remeber all this also came after there was already a limper into the pot, had it been folded to me, I probably would have reevaluatied the sitation.