8 replies to this topic

[MrNiceGuy]

Thought I would try getting the stud forum going by posting a hand - I have not been playing 7-card stud long (a few weeks), I'm roughly breaking even at it overall. I've exclusively played limit at $.50/$1.00.Here's a hand I played yesterday, the third hand I saw after sitting down, which turned out pretty well - any comments on my play would be appreciated.8-handed 7-card stud (hi only) - $.50/1.00, 5 cent ante3rd Street:P1 (- -)4:diamond: posts bring-in ($.25), calls ($.75)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P3 (- -)8:club: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P4 (- -)Q:spade: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P5 (- -)6:spade: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P6 (- -)A:heart: completes ($.50), calls ($.50)P7 (- -)Q:club: raises ($1.00)P8 (- -)6:diamond: foldsI didn't complete because I wanted to keep weaker callers in - perhaps I should have though?4th StreetP1 (- -)4:diamond: 4:spade: checks, calls ($.50)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: bets ($.50)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: calls ($.50)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: calls ($.50)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: calls ($.50)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: all-in ($.30)P7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: calls ($.50)I liked my kings so far (especially with the A being out of chips), plus I had the three clubs, so I bet to try to build the pot, everyone called5th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: bets ($1.00), calls ($1.00)P1 (- -)4:diamond: 4:spade: 5:diamond: calls ($1.00), foldsME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: raises ($2.00)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: 6:club: calls ($2.00)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: calls ($2.00)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: calls ($2.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: is all-inI raised to build the pot in case my flush got there (and also to make any gutshots pay to stay in, in case I made trips or kings up)6th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: 9:club: bets ($1.00)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: 5:heart: calls ($1.00)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: 6:club: 9:spade: foldsP4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: 3:heart: calls ($1.00)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club: calls ($1.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J:diamond: is all-inAm I right not to raise here? I think so - with only one card to come I'm probably not getting good enough odds to raise here7th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: 9:club:(-) bets ($1.00)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: 5:heart:(A:club:) calls ($1.00)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: 3:heart:(-) foldsP5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club:(-) calls ($1.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J:diamond:(-) is all-inShould I have raised with my flush here? I opted not to because with P7 continuing to lead out on both 6th and 7th, after my raise on 5th, I feared that he had made a full boat. Plus I didn't have a clue what P5 had, if he would call the bet but not a raise, then a raise wouldn't have gotten me anything. Showdown:P7 (Q:heart: 7:heart:) Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: 9:club:(6:heart:), two pairME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: 5:heart:(A:club:), flushP5 (3:diamond: 4:club:)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club:(8:diamond:), straight (mucked)P6 (8:spade: 3:spade:)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J:diamond: (3:club:), pair of threes (mucked)And I took down a $28.70 pot for a profit of $21.90. So in hindsight I should've raised 7th street, because I can't imagine P5 laying down his straight in a pot this big.Anyway, any thoughts/comments?

[Swift_Psycho]

Now I'm not much of a stud player, so I'm not really qualified to give advice. But, I will say that I think you played it correctly from what I could see with the exception that you should have completed the bring-in bet in the first round of betting.

[KDawgCometh]

8-handed 7-card stud (hi only) - $.50/1.00, 5 cent ante3rd Street:P1 (- -)4:diamond: posts bring-in ($.25), calls ($.75)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P3 (- -)8:club: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P4 (- -)Q:spade: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P5 (- -)6:spade: calls ($.25), calls ($.75)P6 (- -)A:heart: completes ($.50), calls ($.50)P7 (- -)Q:club: raises ($1.00)P8 (- -)6:diamond: foldsI didn't complete because I wanted to keep weaker callers in - perhaps I should have though?flawed thinking like that will cost you in the long run. complete this and worry about the ACe if he has a clue. YOu have Kings with a Jack kicker, so you need to raise so that you have at least a chance to win UI. YOu won't be able to do this with all of thses people in the pot. NEVER DO THIS AGAIN4th StreetP1 (- -)4:diamond: 4:spade: checks, calls ($.50)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: bets ($.50)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: calls ($.50)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: calls ($.50)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: calls ($.50)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: all-in ($.30)P7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: calls ($.50))I liked my kings so far (especially with the A being out of chips), plus I had the three clubs, so I bet to try to build the pot, everyone callednope you need to riase. YOur club draw isn't live. There are three dead clubs on the board. You need to narrow the field or at elast make them pay. NOw you should be worried about the guy with fours pairing his door card, why has this thought not gone into your head, riase to find out so you can fold here if he raises back5th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: bets ($1.00), calls ($1.00)P1 (- -)4:diamond: 4:spade: 5:diamond: calls ($1.00), foldsME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: raises ($2.00)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: 6:club: calls ($2.00)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: calls ($2.00)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: calls ($2.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: is all-inI raised to build the pot in case my flush got there (and also to make any gutshots pay to stay in, in case I made trips or kings up)dude, your club draw is weak, there is now another dead club here. NOt to mention that there are two people with better boards then what you have in your hand, IE they could very well have two pair. you should consider folding here, but you don't6th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: 9:club: bets ($1.00)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: 5:heart: calls ($1.00)P3 (- -)8:club: 2:diamond: 6:club: 9:spade: foldsP4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: 3:heart: calls ($1.00)P5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club: calls ($1.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J:diamond: is all-inAm I right not to raise here? I think so - with only one card to come I'm probably not getting good enough odds to raise herethis is maybe the first street you played right. Your club draw is even more weakened now with the 9 club being out there. I think the only way you can really win this is by making a miracle club flush7th StreetP7 (- -)Q:club: T:heart: T:spade: 9:club:(-) bets ($1.00)ME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: T:club: 5:heart:(A:club:) calls ($1.00)P4 (- -)Q:spade: J:spade: 9:diamond: 3:heart:(-) foldsP5 (- -)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club:(-) calls ($1.00)P6 (- -)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J:diamond:(-) is all-inShould I have raised with my flush here? I opted not to because with P7 continuing to lead out on both 6th and 7th, after my raise on 5th, I feared that he had made a full boat. Plus I didn't have a clue what P5 had, if he would call the bet but not a raise, then a raise wouldn't have gotten me anything. you are a lucky SOB. Seriously you need to raise this river becasuse you'll only get one overcall where as P7 could very well riase you and then you could get more out of it. If you play hands like this, I'd love to play you often. Not trying to be a jerkoff, but you played this hand real bad and your logic was flawed on most streetsShowdown:P7 (Q:heart: 7:heart:) Q:club: 10:heart: 10:spade: 9:club:(6:heart), two pairME (J:club: K:club:)K:heart: 7:club: 10:club: 5:heart:(A:club:), flushP5 (3:diamond: 4:club:)6:spade: 5:club: 8:heart: 2:club:(8:diamond:), straight (mucked)P6 (8:spade: 3:spade:)A:heart: 5:spade: 2:spade: J: diamond: (3:club:), pair of threes (mucked)And I took down a $28.70 pot for a profit of $21.90. So in hindsight I should've raised 7th street, because I can't imagine P5 laying down his straight in a pot this big.Anyway, any thoughts/comments?

[Swift_Psycho]

4th Street P1 (- -)4 4 checks, calls ($.50) ME (J K)K 7 bets ($.50) P3 (- -)8 2 calls ($.50) P4 (- -)Q J calls ($.50) P5 (- -)6 5 calls ($.50) P6 (- -)A 5 all-in ($.30) P7 (- -)Q T calls ($.50)) I liked my kings so far (especially with the A being out of chips), plus I had the three clubs, so I bet to try to build the pot, everyone called nope you need to riase. YOur club draw isn't live. There are three dead clubs on the board. You need to narrow the field or at elast make them pay. NOw you should be worried about the guy with fours pairing his door card, why has this thought not gone into your head, riase to find out so you can fold here if he raises back I'm not sure how he raises this KDawg. He bet and no one raised him, so I think he did all he could on this street.

[KDawgCometh]

Swift_Psycho said:

4th Street  P1 (- -)4 4 checks, calls ($.50)  ME (J K)K 7 bets ($.50)  P3 (- -)8 2 calls ($.50)  P4 (- -)Q J calls ($.50)  P5 (- -)6 5 calls ($.50)  P6 (- -)A 5 all-in ($.30)  P7 (- -)Q T calls ($.50))  I liked my kings so far (especially with the A being out of chips), plus I had the three clubs, so I bet to try to build the pot, everyone called  nope you need to riase. YOur club draw isn't live. There are three dead clubs on the board. You need to narrow the field or at elast make them pay. NOw you should be worried about the guy with fours pairing his door card, why has this thought not gone into your head, riase to find out so you can fold here if he raises back I'm not sure how he raises this KDawg.  He bet and no one raised him, so I think he did all he could on this street.

my bad I was looking at P1 thinking he lead. Honestly then a CR here might be inorder as one of the Q up cards is gonna bet at it. I still don't get how he was first as the A upcard should've been first to act. hmmmm

[MrNiceGuy]

Thanks for the comments guys - much appreciated.3rd St: I agree that on 3rd street I definitely should've raised; I got really lucky overall on this hand.4th St: Also, P1 was the first to act on 4th street with his pair of 4s showing, and he checked and I bet. So I think I would've been allowed to (and probably should've) made the full bet here, because P1 had the pair showing. But I like your suggestion of a check-raise KDawg, that probably would've been the best play.7th St: KDawg, after looking at it again, I agree with you that I should've raised on seventh after catching my flush. P7 probably doesn't have a boat unless he caught the case ten or the case queen on the river - from his third street raise and fourth street call, he probably started with Qx in the hole (or a wired pair), not QQ or QT, because he would've raised on fourth with those. So his sixth street bet was almost certainly made with two pair, and if he'll bet it on sixth it stands to reason that he would value bet it on seventh too, looking for crying calls at this monster pot from busted draws. And neither my board nor P5's was very frightening. So I should've realized that P7 was much more likely to have two pair than a boat, and thus I should've raised, and I would've picked up two extra bets. And I'd really be kicking myself for not raising if he'd have had aces up or kings up, because then he might've reraised. (But I think that if I would've had three clubs exposed instead of two, then I doubt he would bet without a boat, and in that case my call would've more likely been correct. Would you agree with this?)5th St: However, I'm not convinced that my raise on 5th was a bad play. At this point, I had seen 24 cards (including my own), eight of which were clubs, which meant out of the remaining 28 cards there were 5 clubs left. With two cards to come, I calculate that I'll catch a club about 1/3 of the time. Assuming that my flush will be good in the end if it hits, then as long as I think at least three other people will stay in I should raise for value, right? Also, with a 1/3 chance to catch a flush by the end, and nobody looking like they have a boat, I don't see how I could possibly fold here.

[KDawgCometh]

MrNiceGuy said:

5th St: However,  I'm not convinced that my raise on 5th was a bad play.  At this point, I had seen 24 cards (including my own), eight of which were clubs, which meant out of the remaining 28 cards there were 5 clubs left.   With two cards to come, I calculate that I'll catch a club about 1/3 of the time.  Assuming that my flush will be good in the end if it hits, then as long as I think at least three other people will stay in I should raise for value, right?  Also, with a 1/3 chance to catch a flush by the end, and nobody looking like they have a boat, I don't see how I could possibly fold here.

you have five clubs to catch, but you need to factor in the other players that can catch one of those five clubs. This is why your play is bad here. You weren't drawing to a live flush, this is one of the biggest money killers in stud. When you have 4 to the flush on fourth street your only gonna catch a live flush 48% of the time by the river, so you definetly won't catch a dead flush draw with five clubs left in the deck with two streets to go. I'm only trying to help you as stud is my best game and am always willing to help out in stud related questions. So if I seem harsh I'm only trying to help

[MrNiceGuy]

KDawgCometh said:

MrNiceGuy said:

5th St: However,  I'm not convinced that my raise on 5th was a bad play.  At this point, I had seen 24 cards (including my own), eight of which were clubs, which meant out of the remaining 28 cards there were 5 clubs left.   With two cards to come, I calculate that I'll catch a club about 1/3 of the time.  Assuming that my flush will be good in the end if it hits, then as long as I think at least three other people will stay in I should raise for value, right?  Also, with a 1/3 chance to catch a flush by the end, and nobody looking like they have a boat, I don't see how I could possibly fold here.

you have five clubs to catch, but you need to factor in the other players that can catch one of those five clubs. This is why your play is bad here. You weren't drawing to a live flush, this is one of the biggest money killers in stud. When you have 4 to the flush on fourth street your only gonna catch a live flush 48% of the time by the river, so you definetly won't catch a dead flush draw with five clubs left in the deck with two streets to go. I'm only trying to help you as stud is my best game and am always willing to help out in stud related questions. So if I seem harsh I'm only trying to help

No offense taken KDawg, and I respect your experience and appreciate all the help - but the 48% you mention with three streets to come assumes no knowledge of anyone else's cards, which means there are 9 clubs left and 38 non-clubs left. In this case, there were 8 dead clubs, but there were also 19 dead non-clubs, leaving only 5 clubs but also only 23 non-clubs. So, I calculate that in this case, the flush will get there 33% of the time. (Note that the odds of catching a club specifically on sixth street are 5/28 = 18%, and in this case I have two streets on which to catch one.) So, assuming my calculation of 33% is correct, I still think my raise makes sense.

[MrNiceGuy]

I went back to think about whether the other players played correctly or not - P1: I'm sure he made a mistake somewhere; the only holecards I can see him calling with on 3rd would be any two diamonds, 4x, any pair, 23, 35, or 56. But with any of these hands, I don't get his call/fold on 5th (since he was last to act when he folded). I think if he was going to fold two small pair (with at least the fours live) he wouldn't have called the first bet. And I can't see him possibly folding trips or an OESD in this spot. So I can only imagine he was taking a flyer with maybe a couple high cards on 3rd, and was a little slow getting rid of it. Either that or he's giving me credit for rolled up kings (or trip sevens) after my raise and he doesn't want to chase a straight draw that'll be no good if I fill up.P3: No idea what he might've had, but he probably held onto it a bit too long.P4: Probably a busted spade draw, if so he played it right I think.P5: 346 no suits is pretty loose to be calling on 3rd, right? I guess with four people in in front of him and fives live at that point, it makes some sense. But I have no idea why he didn't pop it on 6th when he made his straight. The only person that could've had him beat at that point was if P7 had a boat, and that was unlikely, as we discussed. He wouldn't have knocked anybody out, but he was a favorite to win at that point, he should've raised.P6: Apparently just felt like gambling with the last of his buy-in.P7: Played it fine at least through fifth street, and I also think the bet out on 6th makes sense (although after my raise on 5th, the thought that I might have trip kings or sevens or kings up should at least cross his mind). And after nobody raised him on 6th, I can see the value bet on 7th, hoping that P5 and I had both missed draws and would make weak calls (or even bluff-raise) since the pot was so big. Anyway it worked out for him, because I would've bet anyway if he hadn't. So overall I think he played it ok.P8: Maybe the only one who played his hand totally perfect.