65 replies to this topic

[WallstreetMSU]

offset, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 1:59 AM, said:

On the river you pressed the New Topic Button.

LMAO!!!!That was funny

[_Great_Dane_]

sholden, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 1:47 AM, said:

If you end up all in as an 80% favourite 3 times in a tournement than half the time you will end up being knocked out of that tournament on one of those hands.

80% favourite 3 times in a tournamenthalf the time you will end up being knocked outon one of those handsBreak that down for me. How many times out of three would I get knocked out, in your example?

[augmented]

_Great_Dane_, on Wednesday, October 11th, 2006, 11:12 PM, said:

80% favourite 3 times in a tournamenthalf the time you will end up being knocked outon one of those handsBreak that down for me. How many times out of three would I get knocked out, in your example?

to calculate the likelihood that you get knocked out if you are 20 percent to lose three times, you take the likelihood that you won't lose any given time, and raise it to the power of however many times you're running it. so for this example:0.8 cubed = .512so 51.2 percent that you lose at least once in those three times. make some sense? doesn't that sound about right?OP, ysapky.

[stopsayingfrankly]

mod, change thread name to "I want to lose money playing poker. Can you please help me lose my money?" to those trying to answer this guy seriously... why? he said he wants to play with better players than him... let him! to OP: if you want to play with players who won't make mistakes against you, i'd advise reloading your account for 100k and playing the biggest nl games. isnt poker great? there are actually people out there, just like this guy, who truely would LIKE to lose their money.

[Knight_Owl]

omahahilo, on Wednesday, October 11th, 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.Matt

I"ll tell you what you did wrong, you made it Cheap on the flop for villian to be able to see a cheap turn thereforre chances of improving and ultimatly having a risk of being sucked out on! Just PUSH ON THE FLOP! If you keep playing like a Wuss! Or FancyPlaySyndrome than this is going to be occuring, over, and Over, and OVER AGAIN!

[_Great_Dane_]

Knight_Owl, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 3:55 AM, said:

Just PUSH ON THE FLOP! If you keep playing like a Wuss! Or FancyPlaySyndrome than this is going to be occuring, over, and Over, and OVER AGAIN!

If you push on the flop, the idiot will call for sure as a 2:1 underdog. That's an easy call for them since they're calling after the turn as a 4:1 underdog. I'd rather push after the turn card to give them one chance to suckout and not two.

[sholden]

_Great_Dane_, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 1:06 AM, said:

If you push on the flop, the idiot will call for sure as a 2:1 underdog. That's an easy call for them since they're calling after the turn as a 4:1 underdog. I'd rather push after the turn card to give them one chance to suckout and not two.

I think the final version was that they turned the flush draw. So on the flop they were under 6% to win (needing runner-runner flush, two pair or trips). Then again I didn't really keep up with the changes.

[Zach6668]

I'd prolly just quit poker.

[HijackedAffairs]

Switch places! If you think people sucking out is likely chase flushs. It's not rocket science, you were winning the hand but got unlucky. It happens, you want people calling there. If you don't, quit. Seriously just stop, because you have no concept of what poker is about.

[IQCrash]

Learn to bet like a man instead of 150 chips into a 450+ chip pot.Not to mention, you actually thought you were pricing out the draws with that small of a bet?Sounds like you're playing above your level mate, not below it.Cheerio.- Crash

[JMoney2681]

IQCrash, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 2:46 AM, said:

Learn to bet like a man instead of 150 chips into a 450+ chip pot.Not to mention, you actually thought you were pricing out the draws with that small of a bet?Sounds like you're playing above your level mate, not below it.Cheerio.- Crash

QFTOP, bet more if you want to "get the draws out."

[Dogpatch]

Usually I read through all the posts, but screw it. If noone answered it clearly yet, the flop bet was not high enough. You should bet the pot or close to it. That knocks out draws... sometimes.

[mtdesmoines]

omahahilo, on Wednesday, October 11th, 2006, 9:16 PM, said:

I'm sorry I didn't say that correctly. I meant what level would people stop CALLING with only a Jack hi flush draw.I understand that pushing with it is differant depending on position etc ...Matt

I, too, have a "SUCK OUT ON ME" sign attached to my forehead.

[sixhands]

mtdesmoines, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 8:00 AM, said:

I, too, have a "SUCK OUT ON ME" sign attached to my forehead.

I usually put that sign somewhere else but to each his own I guess

[Teffy]

omahahilo, on Wednesday, October 11th, 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.Matt

Bet more at this point. knock everyone off. You don't have a set, our hand is easily outdrawn here. You should want to take this one down after the flop.

[zimmer4141]

I don't know if it's been said already, but you should bet more on the flop.

[alf13]

WallstreetMSU, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 1:46 AM, said:

also, if you want to push the draws out, make a 3/4 or pot sized bet on the flop. giving him improper pot odds.

This is right. IF you want to knock draws out.Personally....knocking a draw out in this situation is weak nervous nelly poker. I don't go for that.I like a 1/2 pot bet here at most to price IN any draw into the turn. I then price them out with a turn bet, unless I got a plentiful stack...then I might price them in AGAIN.I don't mind fading outs for chips to gain. (It is my version of implied odds, and the likelyhood of getting my opponent to bluff the river with a busted draw, makes this worthwhile.)Think on another level. Think like a good player.Yes...this is a high variance style. Who gives a fuck? That is how you accumulate.

[Balloon guy]

I'm with Dane and Alf, I don't mind betting 150 into that pot to get through the turn, one card to come is easier to dodge than two. So the OP played this okay, not great but it's not a bad flop for AK. No spade on turn, push all in.To the Op,Maybe this will help, if you made this exact play 100 times, you will win exactly 80 times, and lose exactly 20 times. ( for arguements sake)so 80 times you will win 1250 from donkeycall = 100,00020 times you will lose 1250 to donkeycaller = 25,000your profit for 100 hands is 75,000 / 100 hands This means your expected return is 750 chips for this play. So you should do this everytime, because over the long run you will make 750 chips each time you do this. Think of it like a salesman that will only make 1 sale for each 100 calls they make. They expect to get the phone slammed in their ear 99 times, so the sooner they get through those 99 calls, the sooner they can get to thier 1 call that makes money.I say this with full disclosure that had this been me I would have turned off the computer right then, and kicked the dog while swearing I will never play online again.

[DunkinDonuts]

omahahilo, on Wednesday, October 11th, 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

No ... I hate when I get knocked out of tourney after tourney this way.I will set it up for you.I am UTG and I get AK suited I have 1250 in front of me. I raise to 200 with the blinds at 25-50. All fold to the button who calls with his stack of 1350. Both blinds fold.The flop comes down K-8-6 rainbow. I make a 150 chip bet to knock out the straight draw. Button calls.The turn brings a 2. Now the 8 and 6 are suited in spades. I assume that there is a whole host of draws out there I push all in. Button calls.His hand is turned up J-3 spades ... river is a spade. I'm out. So ... tell me what I did wrong here.Matt

Matt,It never stops. I usually feel most comfortable at $10 SNGs, but occasionally I will go as high as $50. The catch is, though you'll tend to find stiffer competition in general as you move up, you will also find people who have different valuations of money, and who will treat $50 as though it is $10, or treat $200 as though it is $50.For example, I was just in a Omaha Hi/Lo SNG for $50. I had KK23 in the BB, and called a 3x raise from MP. Our stacks were roughly even. The flop is K 4 7. Rather than let an A2 or A3 hit a better low for free. I lead out for pot, which effectively puts my opponent all-in and leaves me with a handful of chips.He actually pauses for a couple seconds before calling with A99Q rainbow. Turn J. River T.This was a $50 SNG. He was not shortstacked, though the blinds were reasonably high. He called rather than push, so fold equity was non-existent. Short of a misclick, I cannot think of any reason why someone would call here, except perhaps if they believed it was a TOTAL bluff, and he put me on a low draw with no pair. Even at that, it just doesn't make sense. I only remember it because it takes not just a bad beat, but an inexplicable call to bring that situation to fruition.Another case in point. My friend plays $2/4 NLHE cash games. He sat down last night with $400 and was heads up against another player with about $350. I watched while my friend picked up AA. The other player raises to $40. My friend reraises to $100. The other player reraises to $200. My friend pushes. The other player calls.Showdown: AA v. 22.22 > AA.What would prompt a player sitting on $350 to put everything on the line with 22 against a player whom he had not seen play a hand yet? What range of hands does it beat in this situation against an unknown player? Perhaps if he puts him squarely on AK by some revelation of God, playing 22 is defensible. To me, that is not a play you expect from someone sitting on nearly 100x the BB. He typed in the chatbox: "Sorry, tough beat... felt like gambling."You don't know what frame of mind people are in, particularly online where it's so easy to just click buttons and pray, so you will ALWAYS run into people who will make ridiculous plays. Calling all-in with a flush with only one card to come (19 percentish, right?) is one of the standards. I particularly see it in Pot-Limit Omaha, where the "thrill" of four cards and the fast pace of auto-pot-betting lead people to make snap decisions without really considering whether they have any other draws.I lost a $600 pot at $2/4 PL Omaha Hi when I flopped top set with AA against a very loose Euro player. The flop was A 2 6, and he had 34T8 all of one suit, none of which hit the flop. He called the pot-sized raise preflop, on the flop, when an offsuit J hit on the turn, and by the river we were all-in just in time for a 5 to drop.Sorry for the long read, but I'm just trying to put in perspective with real-life situations that you just will not escape these situations based solely on the limit. I wish I could get a gutshot to call $300 every time, but unfortunately the one time I find someone that frivolous, the card comes that makes it memorable.My advice is, act like you will win against a J-high flush draw 4 out of 5 times, and keep pushing to make them pay.

[sixhands]

DunkinDonuts, on Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 9:59 AM, said:

Matt,It never stops. I usually feel most comfortable at $10 SNGs, but occasionally I will go as high as $50. The catch is, though you'll tend to find stiffer competition in general as you move up, you will also find people who have different valuations of money, and who will treat $50 as though it is $10, or treat $200 as though it is $50.For example, I was just in a Omaha Hi/Lo SNG for $50. I had KK23 in the BB, and called a 3x raise from MP. Our stacks were roughly even. The flop is K 4 7. Rather than let an A2 or A3 hit a better low for free. I lead out for pot, which effectively puts my opponent all-in and leaves me with a handful of chips.He actually pauses for a couple seconds before calling with A99Q rainbow. Turn J. River T.This was a $50 SNG. He was not shortstacked, though the blinds were reasonably high. He called rather than push, so fold equity was non-existent. Short of a misclick, I cannot think of any reason why someone would call here, except perhaps if they believed it was a TOTAL bluff, and he put me on a low draw with no pair. Even at that, it just doesn't make sense. I only remember it because it takes not just a bad beat, but an inexplicable call to bring that situation to fruition.Another case in point. My friend plays $2/4 NLHE cash games. He sat down last night with $400 and was heads up against another player with about $350. I watched while my friend picked up AA. The other player raises to $40. My friend reraises to $100. The other player reraises to $200. My friend pushes. The other player calls.Showdown: AA v. 22.22 > AA.What would prompt a player sitting on $350 to put everything on the line with 22 against a player whom he had not seen play a hand yet? What range of hands does it beat in this situation against an unknown player? Perhaps if he puts him squarely on AK by some revelation of God, playing 22 is defensible. To me, that is not a play you expect from someone sitting on nearly 100x the BB. He typed in the chatbox: "Sorry, tough beat... felt like gambling."You don't know what frame of mind people are in, particularly online where it's so easy to just click buttons and pray, so you will ALWAYS run into people who will make ridiculous plays. Calling all-in with a flush with only one card to come (19 percentish, right?) is one of the standards. I particularly see it in Pot-Limit Omaha, where the "thrill" of four cards and the fast pace of auto-pot-betting lead people to make snap decisions without really considering whether they have any other draws.I lost a $600 pot at $2/4 PL Omaha Hi when I flopped top set with AA against a very loose Euro player. The flop was A 2 6, and he had 34T8 all of one suit, none of which hit the flop. He called the pot-sized raise preflop, on the flop, when an offsuit J hit on the turn, and by the river we were all-in just in time for a 5 to drop.Sorry for the long read, but I'm just trying to put in perspective with real-life situations that you just will not escape these situations based solely on the limit. I wish I could get a gutshot to call $300 every time, but unfortunately the one time I find someone that frivolous, the card comes that makes it memorable.My advice is, act like you will win against a J-high flush draw 4 out of 5 times, and keep pushing to make them pay.

Couldn't have said this better myself