Protege Hand -- Chance To Triple Or Foolish Speculation?

[hblask 1]

This is from the Saturday night Protege tournament, final table. I couldn't get the hand history... but it's roughly this situation:8 people left, top 3 get a seat in the final, I'm in 7th out of 8 with an M in the 8-10 range, in late position.The top two stacks have been very active, betting on most hands, but rarely going head to head. I'm dealt AKo.Big stack raises to 4X, as has become expected.Other big stack (either 2nd or 3rd, but one of the leaders by a long shot) reraises enough to make my choice all-in or fold.Which do I pick?

[tuckermitchell 1]

I think to answer fairly you would have to say whether the reraise has been common or not. If so, and these are the same two stacks you say have been being "very active" I would most definitely push/call as you could be up against any two and are only at a severe disadvantage against two hands. Although I hate calling with AK sooooted or unsuited in most spots, this is your spot to have a decent stack to make that top 3.

[hblask 1]

I think to answer fairly you would have to say whether the reraise has been common or not. If so, and these are the same two stacks you say have been being "very active" I would most definitely push/call as you could be up against any two and are only at a severe disadvantage against two hands. Although I hate calling with AK sooooted or unsuited in most spots, this is your spot to have a decent stack to make that top 3.

They've both been very active, but it's the first time I've seen one of them re-raise the other, and only occasionally have they been in the same pot.

[holyfield 0]

just decide if you want a race or not, if you think your best bet of winning is a race go ahead you wont find a much better spot, your call will probably induce a fold also.if you think you can outplay the others and have enough chips then fold

[Ricer98 0]

Position stats would help alot here. Have both players been active from late position or are they raising any. Without knowing anything about position I think a fold is in order. Wth an M in the 8-10 range I don't think a call is neccesary here. Facing a raise and a reraise your've got to figure your at best in a coin flip. You still have enough chips to find a better spot to get all your chips in.

[hblask 1]

Position stats would help alot here. Have both players been active from late position or are they raising any. Without knowing anything about position I think a fold is in order. Wth an M in the 8-10 range I don't think a call is neccesary here. Facing a raise and a reraise your've got to figure your at best in a coin flip. You still have enough chips to find a better spot to get all your chips in.

First guy has been raising from any position, probably more early than late. Second guy... I'm not sure I'd seen a re-raise at all from him, he's been raising intermittently, I don't know about position. Seems like it didn't matter.

[Actuary 3]

we cannot answer withot knowing all the other stacksIf you are far from top three you would need to gamble more than if you all were pretty bunched together.I think you are a dog to the re-raiser, since he's challenging the other stack.But if you are far from top 3, this could be a great time to gamble, as the other big stack may get out of the way here, reading other raiser for a monster.if you are'nt that far from 3rd, imo, it's a clear fold, given reads.

[hblask 1]

we cannot answer withot knowing all the other stacksIf you are far from top three you would need to gamble more than if you all were pretty bunched together.I think you are a dog to the re-raiser, since he's challenging the other stack.But if you are far from top 3, this could be a great time to gamble, as the other big stack may get out of the way here, reading other raiser for a monster.if you are'nt that far from 3rd, imo, it's a clear fold, given reads.

I don't remember exactly, but I do know I needed to more than double (just barely) to make it to the top three. So it was probably something like1) 85K2) 55k3) 38k4) 30k5) 25k6) 22k7) 18k (me)8) 8kDon't add those up, they are rough approximations from memory. I really need to start getting the hand history as these happen, it's too hard, and frequently impossible, later.

[holyfield 0]

go all in

[Actuary 3]

I'd fold then.

[SpiderGuard 0]

I'd fold then.

Not disagreeing, but would you mind explaining more? I would never be able to get away from that hand, but I'm also horrible and end up in too many coin flips for my tournament life. How can I start making that laydown so I can be better than I am?

[Actuary 3]

Not disagreeing, but would you mind explaining more? I would never be able to get away from that hand, but I'm also horrible and end up in too many coin flips for my tournament life. How can I start making that laydown so I can be better than I am?

I love AK as much as the next guy; but when the 2nd big stack challenges the first one, who already raised 4x BB, I put his range pretty strong and feel I"m against AA/KK too often. An looking at the stacks, we can still wait. THe big stack had little reason to re-raise big without a monsteralso, I assume the players are decent

[tskillz187 0]

I love AK as much as the next guy; but when the 2nd big stack challenges the first one, who already raised 4x BB, I put his range pretty strong and feel I"m against AA/KK too often. An looking at the stacks, we can still wait. THe big stack had little reason to re-raise big without a monsteralso, I assume the players are decent

Actuary has already said everthing right.But so you know, he's right. Get away from this.

[hblask 1]

Thanks for the replies.Results:I folded.From a results oriented point of view, I should have played it. The flop came K-rag-rag, player 1 bet about half the pot, player 2 folded without any thought.I continued to play well and move up the ranks until a really really bad beat took me out of the tournament.The main response I got that makes me think it was correct to fold: do I think my odds to outplay them were better than a coinflip? I thought yes, it appeared to be the correct decision (despite the disappointing ending).

[gobears 0]

The first raise could mean anything since you said that the two big stacks were active. The reraise by the 2nd stack is the worrisome one.However, you have four players to climb past to get to the 3rd spot and a triple up here puts you into 2nd. Also, your M is low enough where I'm ready to take a shot and gamble. I would jam and hope that #2 stack doesn't have AA/KK - less likely since you have one of each.

[ChrisRichey 1]

The first raise could mean anything since you said that the two big stacks were active. The reraise by the 2nd stack is the worrisome one.However, you have four players to climb past to get to the 3rd spot and a triple up here puts you into 2nd. Also, your M is low enough where I'm ready to take a shot and gamble. I would jam and hope that #2 stack doesn't have AA/KK - less likely since you have one of each.

I agree with this. Push.

[copernicus 0]

Thanks for the replies.Results:I folded.From a results oriented point of view, I should have played it. The flop came K-rag-rag, player 1 bet about half the pot, player 2 folded without any thought.I continued to play well and move up the ranks until a really really bad beat took me out of the tournament.The main response I got that makes me think it was correct to fold: do I think my odds to outplay them were better than a coinflip? I thought yes, it appeared to be the correct decision (despite the disappointing ending).

How do you know you should have played it? There are AA and KK possibilities still. This is an easy fold if the two big stacks have the slightest clue about how to play a sat.

[SpiderGuard 0]

Actuary has already said everthing right.But so you know, he's right. Get away from this.

I always listen to Actuary, he is far smarter than I. The best advice I ever received in life was that you don't have to be smart, you just have to realize who is smart and to listen to them. I still don't think I'd be able to get away from it, but now I know it's because I'm a giant donkey rather than a victim of circumstance.

[Actuary 3]

I always listen to Actuary, he is far smarter than I. The best advice I ever received in life was that you don't have to be smart, you just have to realize who is smart and to listen to them. I still don't think I'd be able to get away from it, but now I know it's because I'm a giant donkey rather than a victim of circumstance.

Actuary learned so much from reading this forum.He is not much removed from donkeydom.See his hands posted!!Also, due to my lack of experience relative to so many on here, in actual game play, I don't have a strong ability to put opponents on ranges or get reads on the whole table and tourney dynamics in REAL TIME, and concentration is a problem. Also, I'm bad about knowing when to make a move and misapply concepts. So eventually it'll click as I continue to read and play play play. Some others here, imo, have a much better feel for the game when they are involved; but don't necessarily translate to posting advice on generic hands. Kinda why certain bluffs and re-steals don't make good threads because "you had to be there"you are too kind.ps, I am damn smart though.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Hblask, you made a good fold. I did have AA.

[Actuary 3]

go all in

This now stands out given your other posts being so weak/tight.wee you kidding?