Deep In A $5 On Ub

[Ricer98 0]

Down to 38 in a $5 tourney on UB, allready in the money, blinds 1000-2000 200 ante. Its folded around to me in the cut off, with 36300. I raise to 7500 with AQo, button folds, small blind pushes for 23610. So at this point the pot is 35110, and its 16110 for me to call. Up untill two hands earlier i'd had a top 3 stack so i've been doing my fair share of stealing pots from short stacks. With that in mind is this a good call to make getting 2-1 odds?

[Zach6668 513]

I call.But I raise less first time around so that I haven't committed myself to call.However, AQo is fine to an SB repush vs a perceived steal against someone, who admitedly, had stolen a lot, so I call.

[Actuary 3]

be good to include the stacks at table.How strong is a 29k stack?I'd guess your stealing days are numbered with 29k and Bonds+antes = 5000As I'd think you would no longer be a big stack.Anyway, AQ is good enough getting 2:1 and we aren't near a big $$$ jump I'd presumeI agree with Zach except I don't think you raised to much preflop.You could even push preflop.

[tskillz187 0]

I raise less PF, 5500-6000 range.What are reads on the SB that is pushing, would be nice to know more than, you have stolen a lot. Some people just never ever come over the top unless they have AK JJ+. They just think that you are a loose donk that is going to pay them off sooner or later.I dunno, if you raise to 5500-6000 PF I fold. I probably fold anyways. I really hate not forcing the action for all of my chips in tourneys, especially when I feel like I am outplaying the table. In a $5MTT there are very few times that you need to call off all of your chips, so many opportunities to get them easier than big confrontations.

[pokerfan1080 0]

If we want to go really deep in these things we need to take these chances.Let it ride.

[tskillz187 0]

You could even push preflop.

Yuck. I don't like that at all. Increase stack by 13%(ish) or get called as a gigantic dog. 1010+ AK all calling. I feel like this is such a Sit n Go play. I don't play a tourney for 4 hours to push AQ into a monster on a blind steal. If the player in the SB is real tricky and playing back at raises I'll think about pushing, but otherwise its a 5500-6000 raise.Keep pot small, steal from weak middle stacks and weak small stacks.

If we want to go really deep in these things we need to take these chances.Let it ride.

This is just not true. This is what people say that want to take risks and gamble. UB tourneys get anywhere from 100-500sh players. And have the slowest structure. You can get deep without gambling much at all, and when you are gambling its because the blinds and antes are dictating it.

[Actuary 3]

Yuck. I don't like that at all. Increase stack by 13%(ish) or get called as a gigantic dog. 1010+ AK all calling. I feel like this is such a Sit n Go play.

We have an M ~ 7How can pushing with AQ be wrong ?We aren't given the ave stack or any stacks aside from villain and oursPushing is +EV.Not sure if more than raisng to ~5000-8000..but still it's +EV to pushAnd, furthermore, I doubt rasing to 6000 vs 7500 makes any more sense.We have less fold equity and post flop --- you're folding after a 6k raise and not a 7500 ? It's still very close to 2:1 and less than 1/2 M difference in your remainig stack if you foldFocusing on that preflop raises amount put way too much on an insignificant and unknown part. Tables play differently, Blinds defend differently, we don't have info to pin point a best bet amount

[Ricer98 0]

If we want to go really deep in these things we need to take these chances.Let it ride.

This was pretty much my thinking for a call. If I win this pot i'm up to a little under 70k and back in 2nd place. Before the hand I was sitting in 11th with right around the average chip stack.

[caribstv 0]

this is not the point u want to go broke with.. its bad enough to go broke with AK .. and at best we prob 45% to win..... against any pair...... is this where u want to stand??

[Shizzmoney 0]

Unless your table has been playing extremely tight and has been folding alot ot preflop raises, because of the fact you can continue to try to play small pot poker, I make this call because:a ) If you play a 5 dollar tourney, you should be in it to win it and you need to take these chances to aquire that big stack that enables you a better percentage of survival at the Final Table.b ) Your hand is stronger than usual OTB, and the villian might think otherwise. He could be making a play on you with something as weak as A5s thinking you raised with KJo or something worse. Plus, I think AT worse your in a race here. If he has AK, AA, KK, or QQ - good luck to him. Your hand is way too good at this stage to throw away at your stack when the blinds and antes are so high.Plus since it's a 5 dollar tourney, your chances of playing small pot poker decrease because these tournaments are usually filled with MIS players (Move In Specialists). That means you have to embrace races at times and just take ahand like 77 or AQo and draw your line in the sand and say, "let's go"....UNLESS you have notes and specific read on a player than would suggest a tight range from the villian otherwise.If I had to guess, he either had AJ or a pair of nines.

[pokerfan1080 0]

This is just not true. This is what people say that want to take risks and gamble. UB tourneys get anywhere from 100-500sh players. And have the slowest structure. You can get deep without gambling much at all, and when you are gambling its because the blinds and antes are dictating it.

I disagree. Our M is not at all favorable here. We need to make a stand now, if not, we will need to make multiple stands which is more of a risk. To hope that we are going to catch a hand better than AQ over the next 2-3 orbits is way to conservative.We are in this to win. Playing conservative at this point will only hurt our stack. imo.

[Actuary 3]

this is not the point u want to go broke with.. its bad enough to go broke with AK .. and at best we prob 45% to win..... against any pair...... is this where u want to stand??

getting 2:1.yeah.Are you silly?******************************

If I had to guess, he either had AJ or a pair of nines.

well first of all, you dont' have to.And secondly, what basis do you have to select those two hands specifically ???I call "wild guess" out of a reasonable range

[throwemaway 0]

I think he has 38 soooted or AA..It might be QJ though..But I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about

[tskillz187 0]

We have an M ~ 7How can pushing with AQ be wrong ?

I'm not sure what I said, but I don't think I said it was wrong. I don't think it's the best move, I'm raising to 5500 85% of time pushing 15%. And when I push that 15% I'm effing livid when I move into a bigger hand. It's the difference between 3 hours of work and 1 hour of work in a Sit n Go, it weighs on me.

Pushing is +EV.Not sure if more than raisng to ~5000-8000..but still it's +EV to push

I'm not getting into an EV argument with someone that is much better at math than me. I just think there are smarter ways to go about winning these MTTs on UB, I used to play these MTTs and was a winner.

And, furthermore, I doubt rasing to 6000 vs 7500 makes any more sense.We have less fold equity and post flop --- you're folding after a 6k raise and not a 7500 ? It's still very close to 2:1 and less than 1/2 M difference in your remainig stack if you fold

The less fold equity is assuming the player is more likely to call one type of raise over another. This is info we aren't privy to, late in MTTs people are usually either playing their hand or not playing their hand, regardless of size of PF raise. Especially at the 5 dollar level, I'd argue that a min raise and a raise to 7500 are nearly identical in getting the blinds to fold.

Focusing on that preflop raises amount put way too much on an insignificant and unknown part. Tables play differently, Blinds defend differently, we don't have info to pin point a best bet amount

All the late stage of an MTT is, is a PF battle. That is the most important part to focus on. Spewing 1M more than is neccessary is crucial. I agree that I would like more info on the SB.

I disagree. Our M is not at all favorable here. We need to make a stand now, if not, we will need to make multiple stands which is more of a risk. To hope that we are going to catch a hand better than AQ over the next 2-3 orbits is way to conservative.We are in this to win. Playing conservative at this point will only hurt our stack. imo.

The bolded is the single most overused phrase in MTT history. I play to win too, just because I go about it in a different way that I think is more effective does not mean it's conservative.Why do we need to make a stand now? The stand would have been to push. Once we raise the SB is making the stand not us. We are guessing. Hey, AQ is a good hand, maybe the table is super strong and it's hard to steal and you have to call off your stack here. I'd like to know more though, in my experience it's very easy to chip up through steals.The OP said he was stealing a lot anyways, must not be too difficult. Let it go and chip back up. I like winning hands with 0 risk, because then you don't bust. At the least I like pushing my hand, so that the other player is to the guessing game.Our M isn't favorable, but we are an Avg stack. Meh, I'm losing my HOH touch but I believe that is Q. And IMO, Q is a little more important than M come these late stages.

[Actuary 3]

I'm not sure what I said, but I don't think I said it was wrong

Yuck. I don't like that at all.

you seemed to not like it.************************we disagree on this hand, as I'd never fold with 35 players left with AQ getting 2:1, w/o solid read on SB, given we raised from LP and raised often. I'd love to never get called, unless it's super tigh/soft table, I don't see that happening. You're basing this a lot on your past success on UB, I"m basing it on posting a lot here. so I got that going for me

[ChrisRichey 1]

With an M that low, I like a push instead of a raise. As it was played, there are only two hands we're afraid of, AA/AK. Even if villain flipped over KK/QQ we're still almost getting the right odds to call. This late in a tourney, and this shortstacked, I think it's a definite call. And "it's time to gamble" is overused a lot, but this is a pretty good situation to be in when you have an M of 7. Actuary is right, imo. Copernicus?

[tskillz187 0]

With an M that low, I like a push instead of a raise. As it was played, there are only two hands we're afraid of, AA/AK. Even if villain flipped over KK/QQ we're still almost getting the right odds to call. This late in a tourney, and this shortstacked, I think it's a definite call. And "it's time to gamble" is overused a lot, but this is a pretty good situation to be in when you have an M of 7. Actuary is right, imo. Copernicus?

This is the exact wrong time to post, I just got back from the bar.I have learned so much from copernicus, I've personally sweated his tourneys where hes told me his hole cards. I think copernicus is a great player, one of the best on the site. But, I do think he falls into the "math guy" mold. It's weird, I'm kind of glad im drunk, because i dont like disagreeing with copernicus or actuary. Most of what they say is spot on. I seriously feel like im wrong when i disagree with them, but in a 5+.50, I've killed these tourneys. On UB. The key to winning (i know conservative me) winning, "What you play to win?" How revolutionary. these tourneys, is waiting out the stupid overaggressive players. I've personally won big 5 dollar tourneys. The most overused saying? I play to winWho says that? The dude who just busted. Yeah, I play to win too. Difference is, I actually win sometimes.I don't even disagree with a lot of these posts. I don't like the big raise, I'd rather push. But instead of the big raise (4xbb) I'd rather raise 2x or 2.5x and give myself options. It's not a one move game at this point. Blech. I'm wasted. I'll revise tomorrow.

[tskillz187 0]

you seemed to not like it.*********************d***we disagree on this hand, as I'd never fold with 35 players left with AQ getting 2:1, w/o solid read on SB, given we raised from LP and raised often. I'd love to never get called.

Well, with me playing it 15% this way, it's obviously not my "optimal" way to play it. I think I spoke strong with the yuck. I just wanted it known that I didnt think that was the only or best course to take with the hand. I haven't posted in strat in quite a few weeks. Have you started to play more MTTs? I'd truly like to see your results, I like your opinion a lot, which is why I'd like to see your results over like 20 or so Mtts. I think you are advocating a strategy that is a bit too aggressive, one that does not account for how easy blind stealing is late in a MTT.

[Briguy 0]

Raise less preflop. How often were people restealing this deep? How often was SB restealing? If SB is a loose restealer, call. If this is his first resteal, it ain't a resteal, and you are looking at JJ+, AK, so fold.

[Actuary 3]

I haven't posted in strat in quite a few weeks. Have you started to play more MTTs? I'd truly like to see your results, I like your opinion a lot, which is why I'd like to see your results over like 20 or so Mtts. I think you are advocating a strategy that is a bit too aggressive, one that does not account for how easy blind stealing is late in a MTT.

nope.still do'nt play themif i get money on Stars again I may play some 180'slike I always say..I post opinions to learn.would 20 MTT"s give any clue anyway?

[copernicus 0]

Down to 38 in a $5 tourney on UB, allready in the money, blinds 1000-2000 200 ante. Its folded around to me in the cut off, with 36300. I raise to 7500 with AQo, button folds, small blind pushes for 23610. So at this point the pot is 35110, and its 16110 for me to call. Up untill two hands earlier i'd had a top 3 stack so i've been doing my fair share of stealing pots from short stacks. With that in mind is this a good call to make getting 2-1 odds?

If hes aware that youve been stealing, or is at all suspicious of steals, this is an easy call. Youre much better than the range he puts you on even if he thinks you have a hand, and he may just be restealing.

[Actuary 3]

Coperncus,do you play MTT's?I'd like to see results of at least 20 or more.thank youany on UB?

[copernicus 0]

Coperncus,do you play MTT's?I'd like to see results of at least 20 or more.thank youany on UB?

Yes I play MTTs, and HU mostly. I havent played on UB in quite a while.Im not sure what you mean by results...HHs? Net win?2006 hasnt been a particularly good year..my net is only about 8k from MTTs. 2005 was significantly better, close to 40k (including a 12k FT live, net of the 10k buyin to the Foxwoods Worlds, and not counting the 20k slot win that paid for that buyin!).

[Actuary 3]

I should remember that you don't read the entire thread....

[copernicus 0]

I should remember that you don't read the entire thread....

Not following this one! Do you mean before I post my initial thoughts? I did read the entire thread before your question about results and dont see where I missed anything.