17 replies to this topic

[TheSheriff]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is UTG with A:diamond:, Q:diamond: Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.Standard stuff. Raise AQs in EP, then have to call one more with it from CO (who is a rock) in bad position. Ugh.Flop: (10.5 SB) K:diamond:, K:club:, 3:diamond: (3 players)Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.There is a good argument against leading this flop, given the CO is likely to raise, but the CO is a player who I believe respects me, and is only raising with a hand I am behind at the moment. Still, questionable bet. Thoughts?Turn: (8.25 BB) 6:diamond: (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, CO calls. C/R, don't mind if I do! MP1 "taking a stab" only helps me more. The only feasable hand beating me here is K-K, and unless it's the misclick of the century, he doesn't have it. Now we just smile and pray the last card isn't an...River: (15.25 BB) A:heart: (2 players)Hero bet, CO raises, Hero calls.Final Pot: 19.25 BBThoughts on not three-betting the river? It looked like AK on every street to me.Edit - If the HH is a little ****ed up, it is because I used 2+2 format, and had to go back and edit it. I wasn't aware you needed to use a different format here. Which one should I use?

[KDawgCometh]

I think you should CR this flop if MP1 will bet at it. If not I say threebet it, you should have the equity. Don't mind the river play if you have a decent read from him. oh yeah the Bet the Pot format works best. TC poker works well here too

[Emptyeye]

IF you had him on AK the whole time, then it was fine.To me, the board pairing on the flop is already reason for me to be concerned, and I'd tread carefully from that point on, perhaps not even going so far as to 3-bet the turn (Though your read told you you were ahead here).EDIT: Oh yeah, I use the TC format.

[wrto4556]

C/r the flop3-bet the turn.

[Swift_Psycho]

wrto4556 said:

C/r the flop3-bet the turn.

Can you explain the c/r on the flop preference? Doing that makes it more likely to lose potential dead money in the pot from MP1, so I am having trouble understanding why you would want to do it.Note: I'm not disputing the c/r. I figure you probably know what you are talking about and I am actually curious to understand your reasoning.

[TheSheriff]

wrto4556 said:

C/r the flop 3-bet the turn.

I guess you misread the turn line.As for the flop, I still think leading out is better, I might go for a C/R with one more player.Thoughts?

[KDawgCometh]

TheSheriff said:

wrto4556 said:

C/r the flop 3-bet the turn.

I guess you misread the turn line.As for the flop, I still think leading out is better, I might go for a C/R with one more player.Thoughts?

CRing the flop works if you are sure that MP1 will lead at it. that being said you missed some serious value in not threebetting the flop as you have the nut flush draw and an overcard(it is very possible for a PF 3bettor to have a range ofAA-88 and AKoAKs in that position). Since your overcard is good against QQ,JJ,1010,99, and 88 but dead to KK,AA,AK we'll give it more like 2 outs(I think thats fair here). So you have 11 outs(maybe 11.5 if we count the Queen as being good only .5 of a worth for the times it'll be good) and you just called his raise, you really have more than enough equity to threebet this one

[Absolute]

I agree, but I dont think the MP1 leads the flop

[KDawgCometh]

Absolute said:

I agree, but I dont think the MP1 leads the flop

yeah, that was my thinking too. Without MP1 leading at it then you shouldn't CR this flop

[Absolute]

That seemed to be the point he was trying to make.*shrug*

[KDawgCometh]

Absolute said:

That seemed to be the point he was trying to make.*shrug*

hey I just woke up. soooo listen here biotch if you want to respond in jest, then go right ahead

[TheSheriff]

I just don't agree with the C/R. The move is completely contingent on the MP1 play, and he didnt show any strength PF and is behind the PF aggressor on a paired board. I can do the math on this after work if no one else nominates themselves to do it before then.I could be wrong, but I dont think so.

[KDawgCometh]

TheSheriff said:

I just don't agree with the C/R. The move is completely contingent on the MP1 play, and he didnt show any strength PF and is behind the PF aggressor on a paired board. I can do the math on this after work if no one else nominates themselves to do it before then.I could be wrong, but I dont think so.

but I do think 3betting is in order on that flop

[TheSheriff]

Got you on your heels now! :)Hmm, I'm not so sure.Again, three-betting is contingent on MP1's involvement in the hand. He just called PF and just calls my flop lead. He doesnt have a K and probably is dumping his hand here to the PF aggressors on the turn 80% of the time, in which case my flop 3bet doesnt have the odds to be of value.

[KDawgCometh]

TheSheriff said:

Got you on your heels now! :)Hmm, I'm not so sure.Again, three-betting is contingent on MP1's involvement in the hand. He just called PF and just calls my flop lead. He doesnt have a K and probably is dumping his hand here to the PF aggressors on the turn 80% of the time, in which case my flop 3bet doesnt have the odds to be of value.

don't challenge me, don't challenge me, okay you can . Teehee. I see the logic behind what your saying. man, I'm in a goofy mood today. Hey Absolute, short bus

[Absolute]

ill short bus your mother

[slappy110]

that was by far the worst card you could ask for, except for maybe the 3rd king. I dont like leading on the river here. This whole time, since you said he is a rock, and he's not only 3 betting pf, but 3 betting a utg raiser...that means even more strength...in my head he has MINIMUM QQ, most likely KK AA or AK, given the flop and the action on the flop, i doubt he has quads or Queens, so if its me, im puttin him on AA or Ak, and to me, that river just censored the censored out of you. All you can do is check, call and pray...as far as flop betting goes here, if the flop isn't paired, then i like check raising whether or not mp1 bets out...and thats because you may be drawing live to that ace and a check raise forcing the mp1 out to two bets may fold Ace rag that hit the board here, thus buying yourself 3 outs, and if he calls, so be it, you got the equity anyways...but with a paired board you ace may very well be dead and this whole problem becomes a question of flush equity, which in this case you need two other peopl to have equity so you don't want to shut out the mp1...if you know mp1 to be stubborn and see the turn no matter what...maybe, MAYBE a 3 bet here thinking he'll call two more, but on a paired board i wouldn't risk that as thats likely to scare him off. I like check raising the turn here.

[slappy110]

regarding my comment about "buying" 3 extra outs, it would only be "buying" if one other guy presumably had an ace and you got him to fold it making your ace good when you hit...if that were the case it would only be "buying" 2 outs and not 3....im a stickler for details....