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With The Bankroll On The Line


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#21 Sluggo

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Posted 30 September 2006 - 11:57 PM

Actuary is correct. This is an easy fold, assuming you're a winning player.
(sw)

#22 Zach6668

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 12:02 AM

View PostActuary, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 3:46 AM, said:

but this time your mom won't be buying the groceries.you will never have money again for poker.
It doesn't say that specifically in the OP.There's always ways to get more money.. I could whore myself out to 50 fat chicks for 100 bucks, or 10 REALLY fat chicks for 500 bucks.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
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Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#23 MasterLJ

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 12:07 AM

Part of being a good poker player is eliminating situations that will put a hard decision on you. You did not do this.You not only should excersize good bankroll management to deal with downswings, but you do so so that you can play your best game at all times.If at any time any decision you make in a single hand takes your bankroll into account, you have done something wrong.I know the OP said "given that you've done this..." but I just can't sympathize. It's like saying, "Given that you've shot yourself in the arm, can anyone recommend a good way to grow it back?"It's kind of why you don't play cappers with any regularity because if you make your straight there is always a possibility for someone to have a better straight. Avoiding tough situations is +EV.
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#24 Actuary

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 12:26 AM

View PostZach6668, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 12:02 AM, said:

It doesn't say that specifically in the OP.
your dad knows how much you love to play poker and gives you $2,000 to enjoy yourself. you have dreams of becoming a pro and this is your last chance to build a bankrollhmmm.read comprehend much?

#25 Zach6668

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 01:38 AM

View PostActuary, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 4:26 AM, said:

your dad knows how much you love to play poker and gives you $2,000 to enjoy yourself. you have dreams of becoming a pro and this is your last chance to build a bankrollhmmm.read comprehend much?
ur ghey:heart:
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#26 TheCinciKid

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:23 AM

View PostActuary, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 4:26 AM, said:

your dad knows how much you love to play poker and gives you $2,000 to enjoy yourself. you have dreams of becoming a pro and this is your last chance to build a bankrollhmmm.read comprehend much?
This fight is stupid. Mostly because the concept is incredibly dumb. How can anyone never have money for poker again? That's just absurd in the extreme. There are always ways to save and scrape together a couple hundred dollars and try to rebuild a bankroll. Now, if you're wife is going to ban you from playing poker again if you lose, then maybe there's an argument here. But, let's face it, if you're a winning player you're probably gonna need to divorce the ***** anyway for being irrational.
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#27 Actuary

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 11:34 AM

it's a hypothetical with certain defined parameters.not stupid.not realisticnot hard to "imagine"

#28 AcesUp46

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 02:47 PM

It really depends on your preferences/attitudes towards risk. There's no right or wrong answer.Personally, I would fold since $1200 is my entire bankroll but feel really sick for giving up so much +EV on the table.

#29 SpiderGuard

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 02:59 PM

View PostMasterLJ, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 1:07 AM, said:

Part of being a good poker player is eliminating situations that will put a hard decision on you. You did not do this.You not only should excersize good bankroll management to deal with downswings, but you do so so that you can play your best game at all times.If at any time any decision you make in a single hand takes your bankroll into account, you have done something wrong.I know the OP said "given that you've done this..." but I just can't sympathize. It's like saying, "Given that you've shot yourself in the arm, can anyone recommend a good way to grow it back?"It's kind of why you don't play cappers with any regularity because if you make your straight there is always a possibility for someone to have a better straight. Avoiding tough situations is +EV.
Are we in General where people answer "Bankroll management" to every question asked? It's a fun hypothetical question, and as I posted in another thread yesterday it all depends on how much utility we gain from playing poker. The fun of the game can not be ignored in this process, nor can the utility gained from having money our **** of a wife doesn't have access to. At the end of the day I gotta think this is an easy laydown. While it may be a +EV decision in poker terms, it's -EV in life terms.

#30 Abbaddabba

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:46 PM

Then the obvious answer is to come to your senses, fold, get off the table, cash out, and then deposit it online.

#31 pokerinc

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:51 PM

If you're going to re raise to 900, you are positioning yourself for the call of your entire stack.That's the flaw in the situation I see. If I'm scared money I'm not re re raising w/ half my stack and then laying down when the odds are correct for a properly bank rolled call. Call/fold the initial re-raise. Pumping to 900 *45% of your FINITE bankroll* and then dumping you're definitely never going pro.
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#32 Abbaddabba

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 05:51 PM

But since we're heads up against the worlds tightest player, we should always raise because he'll fold anything less than top set. Or at least that's the impression im getting from the OP.But then... we dont really know what his betting range is since tight doesnt say anything about how aggressive he is.And similarly, how the hell is it that we managed to get heads up on an extremely coordinated board with a table full of super loose players?

#33 JMoney2681

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 12:03 AM

View Postnavybuttons, on Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 4:13 AM, said:

now a hand comes up where everyone folds to you in the small blind. you raise the tightest player in the world to 120 with K :club: Q :D .the flop comes J :D 10 :D 2 :) . you bet 120. he raises to 300. you raise to 900 and he shoves all in.
This question is silly, lol. First off, why reraise the flop, I like to call.
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#34 Zach6668

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 12:55 AM

View PostJMoney2681, on Monday, October 2nd, 2006, 4:03 AM, said:

This question is silly, lol. First off, why reraise the flop, I like to call.
Because our equity is through the roof.However, since we are playing scared poker, we should call, probably.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#35 Actuary

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 06:31 AM

it's silly be cause we are sitting at a 20/40 with 2000 which is our entire bankrollThat pretty much scews any strategy discussion on the hand.

#36 mtdesmoines

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:00 AM

View Postnavybuttons, on Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 3:13 AM, said:

you're out of college and can get a job as an accountant making 40K a year. unforunately your wife has expensive tastes and 40K after taxes gives you just a bit more than ramen every night. if you get a raise she'll just spend more. ...how do you play it?
I divorce the ***** now, because in 7 years, you're going to be "that piece of **** that can't do anything" in your own house. Oh, and the poker thing, ****in call. Losing the 2 grand is going to be a lot less painful than your ****ing marriage. But you know this; this is why you mentioned her.

View PostMasterLJ, on Sunday, October 1st, 2006, 12:07 AM, said:

Part of being a good poker player is eliminating situations that will put a hard decision on you. You did not do this.
Bingo. Why the re-raise? Moron.
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#37 No_Neck

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:00 AM

The day I fold an open ended straight flush draw is the day I eat my hat, and I have a sombrero.

#38 semaj550

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:21 AM

This call is -EV for the same reason the Martingale betting system is a poor one.You are going to go broke here more often than not. Once you hit that wall it's all over and you just have a big loss with no long-run to realize your theoretical profit.Of course, playing short-rolled in the first place is -EV for the same reason because if you get it all in enough times you are likely to lose at least once no matter how big a favorite you are.

#39 No_Neck

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:30 AM

View Postsemaj550, on Monday, October 2nd, 2006, 3:21 PM, said:

This call is -EV for the same reason the Martingale betting system is a poor one.You are going to go broke here more often than not. Once you hit that wall it's all over and you just have a big loss with no long-run to realize your theoretical profit.Of course, playing short-rolled in the first place is -EV for the same reason because if you get it all in enough times you are likely to lose at least once no matter how big a favorite you are.
Did you not see the graph on page 1 we have 47% equity. Half that money is ours, if you want think this is a fold you should not be playing NL poker.

#40 semaj550

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:56 AM

View PostNo_Neck, on Monday, October 2nd, 2006, 3:30 PM, said:

Did you not see the graph on page 1 we have 47% equity. Half that money is ours, if you want think this is a fold you should not be playing NL poker.
Did you not see the graph on page 1? We lose this hand 57.88% of the time. Only 42.12% of the time will you continue to play poker beyond this hand if you call. Your equity is only theoretical and can only be realized over the long run. If you make this call consistently you won't have a snowball's change in hell of realizing a long-term anything. In fact if you make this call 5 times you have only about a 1.3% change of still being able to play poker.Under the martingale betting system if we had an infinite bankroll and someone to take bets of unlimited sizes, theoretically, we would have an infinite +EV, however, we have to consider the actual conditions and realize that all those times we cannot place the next bet in the sequence we lose big time. It's pretty much the same principle at work in the OP. We don't have only theory to consider, which is why bankroll management is so important.The only +EV decision is to fold and cash out.That being said, I probably call if I got myself into this mess. The odds are good enough to warrant risking not playing poker again. It's just not a +EV decision.




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