14 replies to this topic

[rwood]

5/10 LHE RING

Hero is CO w A T

UTG+1 limps, whose vpip is like 1 billion, folds to me, i raise, button, sb fold, CO makes it 3(****), UTG+1 FOLDS!!! holy ****!!!

Flop

Q 7 3

BB bets, Hero raises of course, BB calls

Turn

BOOM Q

BB checks, i ***** slap him with a bet for 3 betting me pf oop, bb ...

EXPLANATION

BB's VPIP/PFR hovers around 12-14/7-9 solid taggy. ranged him for AK, AA-TT. i figure im "beating" AK, JJ & TT, no as likely he has QQ, (board shithead), so he's only sticking around with AA KK & obv QQ but i know he doesnt have the latter. anyone agree with these stats this guy def. is capable of folding enough to make this play profiteeble, or am i just stretching here?

[Abbaddabba]

13/8 is unusually tight preflop, but to assume that you're getting folds from 10's or J's because of that is ... taking a bit too much for granted.

[Head_Trauma]

So you think this guy is gonna call your raise on the flop with TT or JJ hoping to spike his set, then lay down on your turn bet? This would only be if he was weak-tight, not TAG. The very TAG player you describe with your read would lay down TT or JJ to your flop raise. Given what's happened, I think he will call you down and win, either that or your read is off.

[mrdannyg]

So you think this guy is gonna call your raise on the flop with TT or JJ hoping to spike his set, then lay down on your turn bet? This would only be if he was weak-tight, not TAG. The very TAG player you describe with your read would lay down TT or JJ to your flop raise. Given what's happened, I think he will call you down and win, either that or your read is off.

i give very few people enough credit that they'll bet/fold the flop. i think the pertinent question is whether they suck enough to call the turn and fold the river (which is often the case).

with the board pairing though, if he calls the turn, he'll call the river, so at least that's in your favour.

as abba said though, i don't think he folds TT-JJ particularly often. its pretty tough to even break even with only a 13% VPIP, so he probably doesn't get pushed off the best hand too often.

i'd probably just fold the flop.

[DonkSlayer]

Assuming this isn't the first time you've played aggressively with a marginal hand this session, I'd be calling you down in some instances even with just an A-K.

Now, if you waz tight..

[Knight_Owl]

[quote name='rwood' date='Thursday, September 28th, 2006, 11:46 PM' post='1428315']
5/10 LHE RING

Hero is CO w A T

UTG+1 limps, whose vpip is like 1 billion, folds to me, i raise, button, sb fold, CO makes it 3(****), UTG+1 FOLDS!!! holy ****!!!

Flop

Q 7 3

BB bets, Hero raises of course, BB calls

Turn

BOOM Q

BB checks, i ***** slap him with a bet for 3 betting me pf oop, bb ...


It seems to me that your just simply getting way too emotional with past hands that you've played with these villians. And letting that control your judgement vs. actually playing correctly.

It seems that your just spewing.

1st. What do you gain by raising the flop?

2nd. The Board paired on the turn ( u really think villian is going to give you credit for the Q? I think Not.)

3rd. If his VPIP is high, then I'm assuming that he loves to play lots of hands therefore most likely being a bit of a "calling station" which I'm sure from experience. ONE CAN'T BLUFF THESE PLAYERS.

4th, I dont even think you wrote this hand correctly, I hardly even understand it, you state that CO makes it 3 bets, yet on the flop its the BB vs. You. What happend to the CO he disappear?

Future reference, dont' make the post even more confusing by adding insults, and vulgar language against the villians you have played. Very unprofessional.

jst my 2 cents.

GL 2 U

[rwood]

[quote]Knight_Owl Posted Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 1:48 AM
[quote name='rwood' date='Thursday, September 28th, 2006, 11:46 PM' post='1428315']
5/10 LHE RING

Hero is CO w A T

UTG+1 limps, whose vpip is like 1 billion, folds to me, i raise, button, sb fold, CO makes it 3(****), UTG+1 FOLDS!!! holy ****!!!

Flop

Q 7 3

BB bets, Hero raises of course, BB calls

Turn

BOOM Q

BB checks, i ***** slap him with a bet for 3 betting me pf oop, bb ...


It seems to me that your just simply getting way too emotional with past hands that you've played with these villians. And letting that control your judgement vs. actually playing correctly.

It seems that your just spewing.

1st. What do you gain by raising the flop?

2nd. The Board paired on the turn ( u really think villian is going to give you credit for the Q? I think Not.)

3rd. If his VPIP is high, then I'm assuming that he loves to play lots of hands therefore most likely being a bit of a "calling station" which I'm sure from experience. ONE CAN'T BLUFF THESE PLAYERS.

4th, I dont even think you wrote this hand correctly, I hardly even understand it, you state that CO makes it 3 bets, yet on the flop its the BB vs. You. What happend to the CO he disappear?

Future reference, dont' make the post even more confusing by adding insults, and vulgar language against the villians you have played. Very unprofessional.

jst my 2 cents.

GL 2 U
[/quote]


1. he was ubertight, i had been playing with him a while. by trying to rep a Q, i was pretty sure i could push him off JJ TT and AK, im not laggy at all, i just put moves on people when i think i can get them to lay down their hand.

2. Q pairing does hurt me against a good observant player, this one was not.

3. i thought i stated that he was very ABC. not calling station at all, laid down hands when he thought he was beat.

4. yea i did noz up writing the hand down, i had position on him.

sorry for the abusive language.

anyways i guess i could be spewing. i figured this was an interesting hand, one of the instances that bluffing is ++ev. anyways. if he 3 bets me i can let my hand go...he call/folds or folds a good amount of the time. THIS type of player. obv you have to understand the players tendencies to run any successful bluff. unless you just trip and fall and bluff successfully.

sorry again for the abusive language. i do get emotional when i play poker. i hope i always do, because that means i care about playing. once i start getting apathetic i start playing with a reckless disregard.


im surprised a few other players dont agree with this bluff, i think it is more successful than you think. or im an idiot, im always trying to learn, thanks for the feedback either way.

ISAP.

S.

[Shimmering Wang]

What the... I haven't... I haven't been here in a while, but...

What?

WHAT?

What the hell is this hand write-up? It's complete nonsense. The hand makes no sense. Somebody limps, the hero puts 2 extra bets into the pot in the cutoff (without anyone noticing? and somehow the hero is MAD about it??), and suddenly he's heads-up with the BB, who we see no action from preflop.

I... Chien-Ming-Wang sucks.

Wang

[No_Neck]

What the... I haven't... I haven't been here in a while, but...

What?

WHAT?

What the hell is this hand write-up? It's complete nonsense. The hand makes no sense. Somebody limps, the hero puts 2 extra bets into the pot in the cutoff (without anyone noticing? and somehow the hero is MAD about it??), and suddenly he's heads-up with the BB, who we see no action from preflop.

I... Chien-Ming-Wang sucks.

Wang

Don't dark tunnel bluff in limit.

[antistuff]

if you played this hand this way because you have a certain read on the villian, then thats something that only you would know and others cant really comment on that. with that said in general what you did here was pretty bad.

Don't dark tunnel bluff in limit.

whats a dark tunnel bluff?

[No_Neck]

if you played this hand this way because you have a certain read on the villian, then thats something that only you would know and others cant really comment on that. with that said in general what you did here was pretty bad.
whats a dark tunnel bluff?

HOH talks about it, basically it is a bluff that is just a straight up bluff, as opposed to semi bluffing where you always have outs.

[CoranMoran]

whats a dark tunnel bluff?

It's a complete donk bluff made for no reason that has no realistic hope of accomplishing anything.


--cm

[Abbaddabba]

Kind of redundant to say not to then.

I get the impression that it means not to bluff without a draw of some sort.


But that's bad advice.

There're tons of players and situations where it's so likely that you'll get a fold by check/raising or betting the flop that it's stupid not to; no matter what you have.

[iggymcfly]

No, a dark tunnel bluff isn't any bluff that's not a semi-bluff. It's where you have no read at where you are in the hand and no idea what your opponent might do, but you just throw out chips anyway, hoping you'll get a fold. It doesn't apply to a C-bet or something where you have reasoning behind your bet. It just means betting with no plan whatsoever. Donking the river because you missed your draw would be a good example.

As far as this hand goes, I think raising the flop with the intention of taking it away on the turn is terrible. You're usually getting called down with just about anything here, and the flop's not particularly scary. The best line here is just to fold the flop to one bet.

If you really want to try to take this away from a tight player, your best line is probably to just call the flop and then raise the turn. A lot of tight limit players think no one will raise the turn with one pair and make a lot of folds that aren't justified with the pot odds they're getting.

[homnig]

Rwood, your post hurts my eyes.