180 Man

[MisterB 2]

Would you play this any differently?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button (t1500)SB (t1500)BB (t1500)UTG (t1500)UTG+1 (t1500)MP1 (t1500)Hero (t1500)MP3 (t1500)CO (t1500)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6 , 7 . 2 folds, MP1 raises to t60, Hero calls t60, 2 folds, Button calls t60, SB calls t50, BB calls t40.Flop: (t300) K , 9 , 8 (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets t160, Hero raises to t600, Button raises to t1440, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t1280 (All-In), Hero calls t840 (All-In).Turn: (t4620) 4 (3 players, 2 all-in)River: (t4620) Q (3 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: t4620

[BeaverStyle 1]

#1, you know better than to post results.As played... OESD+FD.... Yeah, I think I get it all in there, with the prospects of outdrawing the other hands and tripling upHopefully you're not up against a higher flush draw most of the time??my guess this was a $4 180 person... just saying...

[Actuary 3]

I'd like input on when it's better to call vs push this flop.Now, in this case it may be moot as button and Mp1 might force it all in anyway.But with 3 others left to act, would we be better to smooth call the flop bet?We are a favorite against MP1's range, with his pf and flop bet indicating at worst (for us) a set. The thing is, after the turn, we may lose a bunch of our market, or our equity such that we can't call the bet or get a call, depnding on what falls. So, I'd think we wan to either push the flop or smooth call and play the turn.Of course this is a great situation to get it all in vs 2 others, and you have to call after your 600, no matter what range you put them on. I just don't like the raise to 600 on flop

[copernicus 0]

I'd like input on when it's better to call vs push this flop.Now, in this case it may be moot as button and Mp1 might force it all in anyway.But with 3 others left to act, would we be better to smooth call the flop bet?We are a favorite against MP1's range, with his pf and flop bet indicating at worst (for us) a set. The thing is, after the turn, we may lose a bunch of our market, or our equity such that we can't call the bet or get a call, depnding on what falls. So, I'd think we wan to either push the flop or smooth call and play the turn.Of course this is a great situation to get it all in vs 2 others, and you have to call after your 600, no matter what range you put them on. I just don't like the raise to 600 on flop

I think the raise is fine. I might have raised a little less to attract more in, but it worked fine.

[Actuary 3]

so how u play various turns?Assume only MP1 calls.

[copernicus 0]

#1, you know better than to post results.

Posting results in white is fine, if someone is going to "cheat" and answer based on results it will be pretty obvious.Actuary: if I hit the turn I would try and get him all in over 2 bets. If I miss I probably try for a cheap look at the river with a blocker bet, and call if pushed.

[Actuary 3]

can you explain why the raise is better than either a smooth call or a push, thoughit's fairly easy to defend any action other than a fold.But I don't think the raise to ~600 is ideal ( yeah top set, losing to a flopped flush, damnit!!!!CCDZcCXDdvxcjxcbSKfek I cant fold that all in flop)

[MisterB 2]

I forgot about the results, my mistake. As for my reasoning the 600 raise is over 3 and under 4x his bet which is supposed to signal strength to the ppl behind me which it did. I think the reraise all in by A8 actually sets up well for me to make AA fold thus improving my %. As bad of a play as it was, I think a case could be made for its improving my hand.I really don't think I could play this hand any differently under the circumstances. I think it being the first hand I would rather this happen to me right away as opposed to the bubble. Thoughts?

[copernicus 0]

can you explain why the raise is better than either a smooth call or a push, thoughit's fairly easy to defend any action other than a fold.But I don't think the raise to ~600 is ideal ( yeah top set, losing to a flopped flush, damnit!!!!CCDZcCXDdvxcjxcbSKfek I cant fold that all in flop)

A raise is better than a smooth call or a push because we want to build a pot more than the call does to get more in on later streets if we hit, and the push drives too much money out.As I said a smaller raise may be a little better..to 400 or 500, it may be a little more likely to attract a reraise so you can get it all in when it comes back to you. They did that job for you , so it didnt matter here.

[Actuary 3]

not convinced.with 460 in pot, I can't see a push not being better than a small raise, unless we knew the small raise brings all them all in on flop.THe turn kills our action or drastically reduces equity.

[XXEddie 0]

not convinced.with 460 in pot, I can't see a push not being better than a small raise, unless we knew the small raise brings all them one in on flop.THe turn kills our action or drastically reduces equity.

QFT. The only hand that would give a lot of action on the turn is a better flush

[copernicus 0]

not convinced.with 460 in pot, I can't see a push not being better than a small raise, unless we knew the small raise brings all them all in on flop.THe turn kills our action or drastically reduces equity.

And you know that a push brings anyone in on the flop? theres nothing we can do about losing our market on the turn. The only question is what gets more in on the flop. Pushing is rarely the way to do that unless the odds are so good they cant be denied or we know the current nuts is out there. you dont have either in this case.A push under the vast majority of cases is going to bring in at most one caller, 1440t. A raise can easily attract all 4.

[Actuary 3]

What brings us more chips ?We get folds when we push, good!!!!We aren't a big favorite against hands that call raises here.

[copernicus 0]

What brings us more chips ?We get folds when we push, good!!!!We aren't a big favorite against hands that call raises here.

But additional hands arent likely to reduce our P(win) significantly. We either flush/str8 or we dont. I dont want folds here.

[Actuary 3]

But additional hands arent likely to reduce our P(win) significantly. We either flush/str8 or we dont. I dont want folds here.

you want to convice me that we are a big enough favorite to not want folds with 460 in pot ?Fold Equity is a huge reason to push.There's also a real chance you are pushed off the turn,we don't act first, likely

[copernicus 0]

you want to convice me that we are a big enough favorite to not want folds with 460 in pot ?Fold Equity is a huge reason to push.There's also a real chance you are pushed off the turn,we don't act first, likely

My point is that you are never winning this hand in a way that thinning the field helps you unless its running diamonds to a singleton diamond, and I dont buy that you are going to get everybody out with a push. You arent driving out Ks or other draws, there are too many players and stacks are too thin for that.

[Actuary 3]

you're giving other draws pretty lousy outs.unless it's like pair + sd/fdbut if we say no Fold equity, then, yeah, push is less attractive,But I think we have some.And I want to see both cards and get paid by any callers when/if hitu probably more comfortable playing post flop, lots of experience

[MisterB 2]

Thank you for your responses