16 replies to this topic

[Emmser]

Hi There,Just wondering if I could get some feedback on these two hands I played last night, the first one was in the Negreanu open, I thought I played it pretty well but look what happened :x PokerStars Game #1399633403: Tournament #6280618, Hold'em No Limit - Level II(15/30) - 2005/03/22 - 20:17:48 (ET)Table '6280618 6' Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: gobears (1360 in chips) Seat 2: Emms (2315 in chips) Seat 3: DeNuts1 (1230 in chips) Seat 4: Trancefuzer (760 in chips) Seat 6: 1BigAceHole (3050 in chips) Seat 7: IAmAStripper (1510 in chips) Seat 8: roger44 (1215 in chips) Seat 9: Roggg (890 in chips) gobears: posts small blind 15Emms: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Emms [As 5s]DeNuts1: folds Trancefuzer: folds 1BigAceHole: folds IAmAStripper: folds roger44: raises 150 to 180Roggg: folds gobears: folds Emms: calls 150*** FLOP *** [9s Qs 2s]Emms: checks JaysonWeber [observer] said, "gobears wassup brutha"roger44: bets 270Emms: calls 270*** TURN *** [9s Qs 2s] [Qd]Emms: checks roger44: bets 210Emms: calls 210*** RIVER *** [9s Qs 2s Qd] [Jh]Emms: bets 630roger44: calls 555 and is all-in*** SHOW DOWN ***Emms: shows [As 5s] (a flush, Ace high)roger44: shows [Qh Qc] (four of a kind, Queens)roger44 collected 2445 from potEmms said, "wow nh"The second hand was in another pokerstars tournament, I was getting down in chips and felt it was time to make a move, can you believe what this guy called with :shock: PokerStars Game #1400587760: Tournament #6294235, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV(50/100) - 2005/03/22 - 22:49:29 (ET)Table '6294235 2' Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: kholsty (666 in chips) Seat 2: Emms (1174 in chips) Seat 4: kmac_curler (3206 in chips) Seat 7: djbubba (2384 in chips) Seat 9: xvulture (1755 in chips) kmac_curler: posts small blind 50djbubba: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Emms [5h 5s]xvulture: calls 100kholsty: folds Emms: raises 100 to 200kmac_curler: folds djbubba: calls 100xvulture: calls 100*** FLOP *** [Qh Qc 4s]djbubba: checks xvulture: bets 579Emms: raises 395 to 974 and is all-indjbubba: folds xvulture: calls 395*** TURN *** [Qh Qc 4s] [Ts]*** RIVER *** [Qh Qc 4s Ts] [Jd]*** SHOW DOWN ***xvulture: shows [8c Tc] (two pair, Queens and Tens)Emms: shows [5h 5s] (two pair, Queens and Fives)Emms said, "ouch"xvulture collected 2598 from potxvulture said, "sorry pal"Emms [observer] said, "gg"In your opinion did I play these two correctly, I know the second one was a pretty ballsy all in considering he could have had the queen, but he was a pretty loose played and I didn't think he had it.

[Rocketwadster]

These should be in the bad beats, as that is exactly what they were. I would have played it very similar to how you did, except if I was going to play the pocket fives, I would have moved in pre-flop rather than making that small a raise. Only doubling the blind allowed suited connectors to get a fairly cheap flop, then with that flop he made a play at you, which he had to call if you went over the top (at least in my opinion). I can't see him calling with those suited connectors to a larger pre-flop raise or an all-in.

[cdxx]

Rocketwadster said:

These should be in the bad beats, as that is exactly what they were. I would have played it very similar to how you did, except if I was going to play the pocket fives, I would have moved in pre-flop rather than making that small a raise. Only doubling the blind allowed suited connectors to get a fairly cheap flop, then with that flop he made a play at you, which he had to call if you went over the top (at least in my opinion). I can't see him calling with those suited connectors to a larger pre-flop raise or an all-in.

only the second one was a bad beat, but even so, it's not like he was 100% sure he had the best hand.the first one was tough to play. i'd like to say that i'd raise the flop since this is tournament, but that depends on the type of player the opponent is. loose, probably just call. tight, definitely reraise him, try to take the pot. chances that tight has QQ are much greater.

[Emmser]

You don't think flopping the nut flush and getting beat by quad queens is a bad beat?!? He hit his trips off the flop so I don't think he would have folded so no matter how I play the hand I would be beat.

[jayistheman]

its a tough beat.. a bad beat is more of a longshot draw thing.the call with A x suited was too loose.the second hand, the guy made a lee watkinson call... nothin ya can do...just try not to make moves against guys like this, i guessIMO, anyway

[Rocketwadster]

How can flopping the nut flush and losing NOT be a bad beat? :bubblequestion: I classify a bad beat as having the best hand pre-flop and/or post flop and/or post turn losing on the flop, turn, or river by an inferior hand. That is a long-winded way of saying that someone had a very good hand and lost. Is this a weird definition? :? In this case, the poster had the inferior hand pre-flop, but then had the superior hand post-flop, then had the inferior hand post-turn. No matter who ended up winning this hand, someone was going to have a bad beat story :!:

[cdxx]

Emmser said:

You don't think flopping the nut flush and getting beat by quad queens is a bad beat?!? He hit his trips off the flop so I don't think he would have folded so no matter how I play the hand I would be beat.

it's possible that bad beats are not only what i think they are. but had you put all your money in on the flop and were called, then it might be a tough beat. with trips queens, he has 7 outs for the turn and 10 outs for the river to make a full house or better. so the odds are pretty even. if you can't blame him for making the call, then it's not really a bad call on his part, and not a bad beat.additionally, you went all in when you didn't have the best hand, so...

[Emptyeye]

The first one, yeah, I'd like to say I'd raise on the flop (Being from the never slowplay anything school), but more than likely I'd call the flop and raise on the turn (Or play it like you did). In this particular instance it changes nothing, but yeah, that's just a tough one to take, nothing you can do about it, as after flopping the flush, you're probably getting all your chips in there at some point.Not sure why you're mini-raising on the second one. Make a standard raise or just push all-in preflop. On the flop, his bet more or less priced him in if you decided to push in, which is exactly what happened. It was one of those "calling is slightly less terrible than folding" situations (If you're wondering, I'm presuming he fired at the pot not realistically thinking you'd call or push).

[Emmser]

I am sure he was trying to bluff at the pot with the 2 queens on showing, but when I reraised him for all of his chips wouldn't he know he was beat? 10-8! I guess he was already pot committed and either way he was going all in on that hand?

[Smasharoo]

Really not that intresting.

[SabaAba]

Neither of these are bad beats, they are just bad plays.1) Why are you calling 150 heads up with A5? This is an easy fold. And if you do call, once the board pairs, you need to be a little more careful. I don't htink you should always put him on quads, but he could have had any set on the flop with the amount he raised preflop. Regardless, you should NOT call thepreflop raise with a bad hand.2) You said you felt like you had to make a move? Well with 55, the only move is all in preflop. Maybe he calls and you still lose, but this is not a bad beat. 8Ts against 55 is almost a 50/50 chance. And he called because he figured both his cards were good. You most likely don't have the Q, and if you have a small pair or the 4, he still has outs. Again though, if you need to make a move and you get 55, raise all in preflop.Hope you don't make the same mistakes next time, and remember that these were bad plays and not bad beats.

[Emptyeye]

Emmser said:

I am sure he was trying to bluff at the pot with the 2 queens on showing, but when I reraised him for all of his chips wouldn't he know he was beat?  10-8!  I guess he was already pot committed and either way he was going all in on that hand?

Exactly. Like I said, he was priced in basically no matter what he had once you went all-in. That and, as someone else said, if he presumes that YOU don't have the queen (Or a pocket pair higher than 7s), then both his cards are still live.

[looshle]

how can QQ beating A5s be considered a bad beatIf the flop was 555, and they both went all in and the final board was555QQ.Also flopping the nut flush and not even betting it, letting the other person catch up, and then losing the pot is not a bad beat. He had a set and had 7 outs on the flop. It's not a bad beat, and bet it next time.

[JFarrell20]

Emmser said:

Hi There,Just wondering if I could get some feedback on these two hands I played last night, the first one was in the Negreanu open, I thought I played it pretty well but look what happened :x PokerStars Game #1399633403: Tournament #6280618, Hold'em No Limit - Level II(15/30) - 2005/03/22 - 20:17:48 (ET)Table '6280618 6' Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: gobears (1360 in chips) Seat 2: Emms (2315 in chips) Seat 3: DeNuts1 (1230 in chips) Seat 4: Trancefuzer (760 in chips) Seat 6: 1BigAceHole (3050 in chips) Seat 7: IAmAStripper (1510 in chips) Seat 8: roger44 (1215 in chips) Seat 9: Roggg (890 in chips) gobears: posts small blind 15Emms: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Emms [As 5s]DeNuts1: folds Trancefuzer: folds 1BigAceHole: folds IAmAStripper: folds roger44: raises 150 to 180Roggg: folds gobears: folds Emms: calls 150Don't call this with A5s. Ever.*** FLOP *** [9s Qs 2s]Emms: checks JaysonWeber [observer] said, "gobears wassup brutha"roger44: bets 270This is fine. you 'lucked out' and flopped a flush heads-up nonetheless.Emms: calls 270*** TURN *** [9s Qs 2s] [Qd]Emms: checks roger44: bets 210Uhhhh... remember earlier when you bet 270? Yeah... let's go ahead and bet like 350-400 now. Thanks. Betting less on the turn than you bet on the flop is downright bad poker, I don't care if the board paired.Emms: calls 210*** RIVER *** [9s Qs 2s Qd] [Jh]Emms: bets 630This is fine.roger44: calls 555 and is all-in*** SHOW DOWN ***Emms: shows [As 5s] (a flush, Ace high)roger44: shows [Qh Qc] (four of a kind, Queens)roger44 collected 2445 from potEmms said, "wow nh"Yeah...nice hand. That's why you don't get involved with A5suited heads up for a big pre-flop raise. Doesn't matter that you were the BB. FOLD.The second hand was in another pokerstars tournament, I was getting down in chips and felt it was time to make a move, can you believe what this guy called with :shock: PokerStars Game #1400587760: Tournament #6294235, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV(50/100) - 2005/03/22 - 22:49:29 (ET)Table '6294235 2' Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: kholsty (666 in chips) Seat 2: Emms (1174 in chips) Seat 4: kmac_curler (3206 in chips) Seat 7: djbubba (2384 in chips) Seat 9: xvulture (1755 in chips) kmac_curler: posts small blind 50djbubba: posts big blind 100*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Emms [5h 5s]xvulture: calls 100kholsty: folds Emms: raises 100 to 200What the.... you bump up 2xbb in EP with 55? Wrong.kmac_curler: folds djbubba: calls 100xvulture: calls 100*** FLOP *** [Qh Qc 4s]djbubba: checks xvulture: bets 579Emms: raises 395 to 974 and is all-inNow you go all-in? Wrong. Not to mention the fact that someone ahead of you bets 579. djbubba: folds xvulture: calls 395*** TURN *** [Qh Qc 4s] [Ts]*** RIVER *** [Qh Qc 4s Ts] [Jd]*** SHOW DOWN ***xvulture: shows [8c Tc] (two pair, Queens and Tens)Emms: shows [5h 5s] (two pair, Queens and Fives)Emms said, "ouch"xvulture collected 2598 from potxvulture said, "sorry pal"Emms [observer] said, "gg"So he sucked out on you. Big deal. He at least had the cajones to bluff at the pot multi-way. Your mistake was raising the minimum in EP. Frankly you should have either pushed all in now...and steal 2.5 Big blinds, or raise to about 500.... and if you get 1 caller, push in on the flop no matter what. I prefer the first option as I never do option 2, although I've seen it done on the WPT before. The benefit of option 2 is that you are hoping the flop doesn't help your opponent and you are hoping to steal a lot more than 2.5 big blinds. Take the 2.5 big blinds now though.In your opinion did I play these two correctly, I know the second one was a pretty ballsy all in considering he could have had the queen, but he was a pretty loose played and I didn't think he had it.