18 replies to this topic

[Zach6668]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

SB ($129.25)
BB ($59.80)
UTG ($57.20)
Hero ($108.65)
MP1 ($61.40)
MP2 ($142.55)
MP3 ($110.80)
CO ($100)
Button ($131.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J , J .
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($21.50) K , 7 , 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $12

Couple questions.

I think most people probably bet more, right, like...14-16?

Secondly, folding to a raise, of course.

Thirdly, this might not have been the best board for this. I might fold QQ, or else I'm getting folds from hands that I beat, ie AQ, or something like TT.

I don't know.

What do we think?

Villain is roughly 20/5/7, but only 56 hands.

Ty.

- Zach

[Jordan]

meh, on this hand now I don't like it.

Keep in consideration your position and is. He sees you raising UTG+1, yet he still re-pops you sitting in MP, which means he isn't that worried about guys behind him. That should enlighten you to his hand. He has QQ-AA/AK, in most circumstances.

Now, granted QQ is in his range, this bet may work, but I'd bet as you said, a little bit more for measure.

Otherwise, I usually check/fold to most bets.

The most important thing here is position. You could fold JJ every time in EP and still win the same, or probably even more if you play your late position hands well. And that doesn't mean waiting for hands like AJs and open raising. That means like raising QTo after a few limpers cause you are first going to pick up dead money, and second, when you are called put people on hands and see what you can represent on latter streets.

That's how you win extra money, not trying to figure out how to play your big/medium pairs.

Just my thoughts.

- Jordan

lemme add this..as for leading..if he raises you, no biggie...the thing bout him seeing you fold (if he remembers) is that next time he does this to you, and say you raised a small pair in EP (which is something you should mix into your game but not do regularly) and he re-riased you, you call and flop a set...you need to do teh same thing. You need to lead, and hopefully get him to raise...that's the tough thing about playing OOP....we are afraid we won't get action on our big hands so we check, then we decide we have to raise to protect from a draw, which is usually unlikely in HU Pots. THere are sometimes great spots to lead OOP, and now that you lead with a "weak" hand here, yo ucan do it down the road against him, or other opponents you think are good enoguh to remember this hand, and hopefully win extra later...cause if you check/raise with a set here, then your good opponents will notice this too and kill action. In order to get, you have to give..and that's what you did here...and hell, if you won the hand with that bet...even better.

[Scott3705]

I think Jordan hit the nail on the head when he mentioned positioned dictating how this hand should play. With his position, I think you find QQ takes a card off here every once in awhile and the board's dry enough you may just find a smooth call here from AA, KK, and AK

[Royal_Tour]

meh, full ring, depending on how loose the table is,

i might limp/call looking for a set.

if the table is tight i raise, /call, flop: check/raise, fold to a re-raise.

[krup24]

I like a flop bet of $16-18 here this will probably get QQ to fold whereas I think QQ would take a turn here with the weaker bet.

Whats you plan if villian calls the flop?

[DonkSlayer]

I think the flop bet smells really badly. We're obviously trying to push him off 3 of 6 likely hands, and the only one half-potting will squeeze out is AQ.

I mean, this is really, really ugly. You get called, then what? You're still ahead of....1010. You have to fire again on the turn or you know you're going to lose the hand that you've put more money in with. The call means QQ/1010/KK and maybe an AA. Curses.

In summation, I hate it because you're only going to get raised by an AK and I don't think the villain ever finds a fold on the flop, as played.

[Zach6668]

meh, full ring, depending on how loose the table is,

i might limp/call looking for a set.

if the table is tight i raise, /call, flop: check/raise, fold to a re-raise.

Is this a serious thread?

You guys are LIMPING JJ from EP?

That's soooooooooooooo passive.

I'm new to NL.

It's the LHE in me that makes me raise JJ from any position.

Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

- Zach

[Royal_Tour]

Is this a serious thread?

You guys are LIMPING JJ from EP?

That's soooooooooooooo passive.

I'm new to NL.

It's the LHE in me that makes me raise JJ from any position.

Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

- Zach

well, dude, its totally situational. JJ in limit, raise yes.

JJ in NL depends on table and position. UTG, or UTG+1 at a loose table i might want to limp here looking for a set to get paid off big. i've seen lots of all ins with TP at the 200 and 400 NL tables.

[Actuary]

Zach,

in LHE you have to pump the pot at each opportunity with your stong hands.

in NL, you can delay the pot pumping as your equity changes.

[David_Nicoson]

You guys are LIMPING JJ from EP?

I almost always put in the first raise with JJ. I make smaller raises from EP, though. YMMV.

[Zach6668]

I almost always put in the first raise with JJ. I make smaller raises from EP, though. YMMV.

Will you guys reraise with JJ say in MP2 or 3 after a raise from EP by a normal $100 NL player?

[DonkSlayer]

Will you guys reraise with JJ say in MP2 or 3 after a raise from EP by a normal $100 NL player?

Not sure what you mean by that. I lost a bunch of money trying to make the ONLINE jump from 100max to 200max; I've learned that 100max is probably the most skilled level of micro-blinds and then a new breed of fish come in at 200max, and I wasn't able to make the change in time.

I find 100max players to be very straightfoward, whether that means they're TAG/LAG/WP, etc. It's not very tricky but you'll get killed if you try to get too creative.

So, really, you need to know who raised from EP. If you don't, position being so important in NL, getting a raise from EP often denotes a stronger hand than an average raise in EP in a limit game. I would probably flat-call a standard raise in MP with JJ, not knowing what was going to happen behind me, and then play the flop aggressively if I'm heads-up.

[caribstv]

Is this a serious thread?

You guys are LIMPING JJ from EP?

That's soooooooooooooo passive.

I'm new to NL.

It's the LHE in me that makes me raise JJ from any position.

Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

- Zach

I limp with Jacks lot maybe almost 65% of the time.... always win a nice pot cuz another jack is some where in the community cards.... or low cards might come off and you're only facing 1 or 2 oppenents

[David_Nicoson]

Will you guys reraise with JJ say in MP2 or 3 after a raise from EP by a normal $100 NL player?

No.

[Zach6668]

Apparently I'm way too aggressive.

[LongLiveYorke]

Apparently I'm way too aggressive.

There are so many ways to play NL. A proper strategy depends on the oppenents that you are up against, and even then there are probably several good strategies.

It sounds like you are doing very well for yourself at NL. I'd keep it up. Nothing's wrong with a little aggression.

[gigabit_2]

you have to know when to holdem and know when to foldem

[LongLiveYorke]

you have to know when to holdem and know when to foldem

I was going to make some sarcastic remark, but I'll be the bigger man.

ps. You're an asshat

[CoranMoran]

Apparently I'm way too aggressive.

LOL


You can have 1 of 2 preflop mindsets with your Jacks:



1) You fear that villain has a higher pair
You have one of the best starting hands in all of hold em.
Only 3 hands beat you right now.
If you always feel that your opponents are holding one of those 3 magical hands, then you probably shouldn't be playing JJ at all!

But you will have to use your reads of the table to determine if a preflop reraise means that you are beat.
And if you believe you are behind, then why even bother with this flop?
Without improving, you will still feel you are behind no matter what comes down.




2) You feel that villain does not have an overpair to your Jacks.
If you believe that your Jacks are ahead preflop, then push your edge preflop!
You are out of position and a lot of flops can stress you out.
So get the money in while you are ahead

Raise preflop, of course.
But 3bet preflop!
Seeing the flop will not help your hand!


Point:

When in position, you can be more comfortable letting the flop fall, gaining information from your opponent's play, and go from there.

But when out of position with a very strong hand, maximize your value and gain your information preflop.



--CM