18 replies to this topic

[XXEddie]

CO-140
BB-30
Kevin(SB)-165

Kevin is dealt Ad 5d

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin completes, BB raises to 4, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin calls.

flop Kd Qd Jc

Kevin bets 14, BB calls, 2 folds, CO raise to 28, 1 folds, Kevin.....pushes?

BB has been buyin in for like 40 and has lost it all in 5 hands. So he could have anything really, big calling station, and im not worried about him. CO had me worred. I think the absolute worse had possible for CO is AK. Since its a limp pot pretty much, I dont think he has a set but I dont think he has two pair, and Im pretty sure of that. But If I push, he might fold QJ. But Ive seen this play before with other drawing hands like TdXd or maybe even JT or JdXd

[Zach6668]

Your name is Kevin?

Pushing is good. I like it.

[XXEddie]

Your name is Kevin?

Pushing is good. I like it.

Maybe Kevin is my alias....or maybe Eddie is....the world will never know....muhahahahaha

ok, to the hand.

You sure. Id be much more comfortable if I had a wheel str8 with the flush like T32 with 2 diamonds cause the KQJ flop is liking to hit someone hard

[burbs42]

I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity.

[Zach6668]

I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity.

Pushing on the turn, unimproved, is not very good.

Our equity plummets.

Push when we are a favorite.

- Zach

[XXEddie]

I pushed, both called

BB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn.

then CO said this

"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

[Zach6668]

"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

Bahahahahaahahhahaahah

Nice.

[Jordan]

Well, pushing here really isn't that great given the action and the board.

It's just gambling, which is fine..but as far as +EV play, I dont think pushing the flop is one (most of the time). But hey, I suck at math and havn't broken it down, so what do I know?

I'd probably just call with the draw and hope to hit...how you've played it, i doubt they'd put you on a flush draw...and I'd want to keep them both in the pot and not push one out drawing to the nuts. Not to mention I'd take a min-raise as complete strength on that kinda board. Very rarely will you be min-raised on those kinda flops and have the guy to be found bluffing.

- Jordan

[antistuff]

i dont like pushing here. someone will call you and you will be behind.

[Zach6668]

What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.

Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%:

CODE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

903  games     0.051 secs    17,705  games/sec

Board: Kd Qd Jc
Dead:  

            equity (%)      win (%)    tie (%)
Hand  1:    39.8302 %      37.43%     02.40%      { Ad5d }
Hand  2:    04.7250 %      02.33%     02.40%      { AcKs }
Hand  3:    55.4448 %      53.05%     02.40%      { AhTh }

Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows:

CODE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   2,709  games     0.005 secs   541,800  games/sec

Board: Kd Qd Jc
Dead:  

            equity (%)      win (%)    tie (%)
Hand  1:    28.1285 %      25.32%     02.81%      { Ad5d }
Hand  2:    35.8435 %      35.70%     00.15%      { JJ }
Hand  3:    36.0281 %      33.22%     02.81%      { AhTh }

In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.

- Zach

[No_Neck]

What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.

Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%:

CODE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

903  games     0.051 secs    17,705  games/sec

Board: Kd Qd Jc
Dead:  

            equity (%)      win (%)    tie (%)
Hand  1:    39.8302 %      37.43%     02.40%      { Ad5d }
Hand  2:    04.7250 %      02.33%     02.40%      { AcKs }
Hand  3:    55.4448 %      53.05%     02.40%      { AhTh }

Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows:

CODE

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   2,709  games     0.005 secs   541,800  games/sec

Board: Kd Qd Jc
Dead:  

            equity (%)      win (%)    tie (%)
Hand  1:    28.1285 %      25.32%     02.81%      { Ad5d }
Hand  2:    35.8435 %      35.70%     00.15%      { JJ }
Hand  3:    36.0281 %      33.22%     02.81%      { AhTh }

In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.

- Zach

but they eliminated a set and AT is the worse possible hand that he could have. I think you will get a call from KJ or KQ there too.

Also I think pushing might be EV+ if anyone is paying attention to what you are doing. You might get paid off more. Just a thought.

[TheCorporation3]

I pushed, both called

BB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn.

then CO said this

"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk.

[Zach6668]

He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk.

Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious.

[MasterLJ]

The main reasons pushing a strong draw is profitable (in given order):

1. Fold Equity
2. Multi-way callers
3. People who over play TPTK or overpair
4. HU against a perpetual lagtard bluffer

If you don't have one of those 4 scenarios, pushing is bad imo.

[DonkSlayer]

Meh, I'm probably folding preflop.

[Zach6668]

Meh, I'm probably folding preflop.

Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.

You don't fold preflop.

[DonkSlayer]

Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.

You don't fold preflop.

Oh. Not sure If i read the stakes wrong or thought it was a raise to $6. You're right.

[TheCorporation3]

Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious.

You're such a sweetheart.

[holyfield]

just call or reraise i think, gives you all control in the hand.

only reason to push i think would be if you thought you could get a fold but with a monster draw like this i dont see why you really need a fold in this spot.