12 replies to this topic

[Bizzle]

Alright, a few of the people that I talk about poker with constantly have been having a bunch of discussions about AK late in tourneys (especially final tables) when the stack sizes are a little weird. There have been 2 situations in particular that caused dissension, so I will try to outline the situations.

Stars Sunday million (530). Blinds 3-6k, UTG with 220k and top 5 in chips makes it 18k to go. Our hero is on the button with 158k (he's around 10th of the 40 remaining) and has AKo. Hero...?

10+1 One rebuy One addon final table- Blinds 8-16k. Folds to MP, who minraises to 32k. Folds to hero in the SB who has 240k (is 5/7 right now, leader has ~600k). Hero...?

I see about 4 different possible lines in the first hand, and I see 3 in the second hand. I won't outline them because I don't want to seem biased yet. Have at it.

[copernicus]

Hand 1 call with position, read and react to the flop

Hand 2, what is MPs stack? How valuable is moving up one spot?

[Bizzle]

Hand 1 call with position, read and react to the flop

Hand 2, what is MPs stack? How valuable is moving up one spot?

350k. Not sure exactly (First was 5k, second was 2800, third was 1800.)

[Actuary]

H1: I'm with Copernicus
H2: with new info. Push preflop.

better pos and M in first hand
We can be more paitient

h2 pfr is in later pos.
I like our fold equity better in 2nd hand ( if I pretend min raises aren't monsters )

[copernicus]

With the minraise from a solid stack, barring a prior read that its a monster, I push also. 6th place is probably a decent score for a $10 buy in, but I think its worth the FE + coin flip.

[gobears]

H1: I call and see a flop. I thought about raising to 50K but that gives villain better than 2.4-1 on the call - even better with the ante's. If I go any more, then I'm pot committing myself before the flop.

H2: I jam there as my M is below 10 and I want as much fold equity as possible. Other option for me is to call but I'd be playing OOP after the flop; most likely to a flop that didn't help me.

[Bizzle]

H2: I jam there as my M is below 10 and I want as much fold equity as possible. Other option for me is to call but I'd be playing OOP after the flop; most likely to a flop that didn't help me.

Is there any value to reraising to 100k preflop and then shoving any flop?

[copernicus]

Is there any value to reraising to 100k preflop and then shoving any flop?

Im having trouble deciding if its a good line or not, so it must be close to pushing and the devil's in the deep math, which my brain isnt ready for right nwo.

[gobears]

Is there any value to reraising to 100k preflop and then shoving any flop?

So he's getting better than 2-1 on the call to see a flop but he's invested less than 1/3 of his stack so he could fold to a jam. Villain should realize that you're pot committed with that bet but he does have position if he makes the call.

After the flop, he's getting better than 2-1 to call your jam but if he feels that he's behind with less than eight outs, then he'll fold.

One problem I see is that villain's range for you includes an A/K or other high PP. He'll sorta know if he should call your jam after the flop. However, would villian call with weaker starting hands that he would have folded to a push which gives you a chance to pick up more chips? Maybe he calls with Ax or Kx because of the pot odds preflop which are the type of hands you want villain to play and you actually get all his chips when an A/K flops.

I think this works better against weak inexperienced players who care more about their hand than what you have.

[throwemaway]

So he's getting better than 2-1 on the call to see a flop but he's invested less than 1/3 of his stack so he could fold to a jam. Villain should realize that you're pot committed with that bet but he does have position if he makes the call.

After the flop, he's getting better than 2-1 to call your jam but if he feels that he's behind with less than eight outs, then he'll fold.

One problem I see is that villain's range for you includes an A/K or other high PP. He'll sorta know if he should call your jam after the flop. However, would villian call with weaker starting hands that he would have folded to a push which gives you a chance to pick up more chips? Maybe he calls with Ax or Kx because of the pot odds preflop which are the type of hands you want villain to play and you actually get all his chips when an A/K flops.

I think this works better against weak inexperienced players who care more about their hand than what you have.

What about the times we miss value from hands like 77-JJ if an A or K falls..I'd assume, these hands call a push pre flop if they are going to call a reraise to 100 K...In our minds, we are pushing any flop, so even if we brick out, were getting all our chips in...But lets say we push preflop, he calls and we win the race..We double up..But if we repop, he calls, and we flop an A or K and then push, I doubt he calls and we miss out on the extra 140 K or so we have behind...

Now the benefits of the repop/then push would be when we make a better hand fold? How often do you think that happens? I'm not really sure...Does 99 heroe up and make a call on a Q10x board?

I hope my thoughts are clear, I'm super tired and at work

[Bizzle]

What about the times we miss value from hands like 77-JJ if an A or K falls..I'd assume, these hands call a push pre flop if they are going to call a reraise to 100 K...In our minds, we are pushing any flop, so even if we brick out, were getting all our chips in...But lets say we push preflop, he calls and we win the race..We double up..But if we repop, he calls, and we flop an A or K and then push, I doubt he calls and we miss out on the extra 140 K or so we have behind...

Now the benefits of the repop/then push would be when we make a better hand fold? How often do you think that happens? I'm not really sure...Does 99 heroe up and make a call on a Q10x board?

I hope my thoughts are clear, I'm super tired and at work

This was pretty much my exact line of thought. I think you gain value by not sticking it all in preflop and then shoving the flop from any fold equity you gain on the flop. A hand like AJ or A10 might not call a shove pre, but they might call a repop pre and then fold on a raggedy flop, whereas a QJ4 flop would make a tough call for 77.

[fckthis]

First hand: I generally call AKos with position here. You can try and play aggressively, and repop it, but I would only do it if I had a TAG image, and couldnt play postflop poker.

2nd=All in. No point in trying to get fancy OOP. Good hand, decent pot to pick up without showing/preflop.

[monix]

Stars Sunday million (530). Blinds 3-6k, UTG with 220k and top 5 in chips makes it 18k to go. Our hero is on the button with 158k (he's around 10th of the 40 remaining) and has AKo. Hero...?

I generally agree with the call and play post-flop suggestions.

However, I think there is a different approach if Villain is playing big-stack bully and seeing 50% of the flops and raising half (or more) of the time. If I have a TAG image in this situation, I'd seriously lean towards pushing.