kjs with the maniac

[Absolute 0]

same guy from the other KJ hand comes and sits back down at the table.I raise KJs when it is heads up with us.PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is BB with Kd, Jd. 5 folds, MP3 calls.Flop: (4.50 SB) 9s, 6d, Ks (2 players)Hero bets, MP3 calls.Turn: (5.25 BB) Td (2 players)Hero bets, MP3 calls.River: (7.25 BB) 3s (2 players)Hero bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 11.25 BBwrto just so you know where I am coming from with this guy he showed A6 off here

[wrto4556 0]

He raised the river! Well played.

[Smasharoo 0]

Flop three-bet kind of sucks.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Flop three-bet kind of sucks.

I don't think he normaly would make that threebet, or at least he shouldn't normally do that, but in this case it was a value threebet since it sounds like this guy could be raising with bottom pair or absolutely nothing

[Smasharoo 0]

I don't think he normaly would make that threebet, or at least he shouldn't normally do that, but in this case it was a value threebetIn this case it's a lucky guess.What do you do if he caps and raises the turn?

[Absolute 0]

it was a very very educated guessthis guy was raising PF about 65% of the time.hed raise the flop 50% of those.

[Smasharoo 0]

it was a very very educated guessthis guy was raising PF about 65% of the time.hed raise the flop 50% of those.Ok, whatever makes you happy.IF it's for value why didn't you raise the turn instead?

[Absolute 0]

And normally I would not make that PF raise.nor would I make the flop 3bet.I was getting value on the flop, knowing I was ahead and he would raise me anyway.Then on the turn I knew I had him.Then on the flop I had to call his raise.Check out another hand I played with him with KJo.I do think you have to change small things if you really want to cut away at these loose aggressive players.

[KDawgCometh 2]

[iF it's for value why didn't you raise the turn instead?

you mean the river, he lead at the turn

[Absolute 0]

How the hell do I raise my own bet?

[Smasharoo 0]

How the hell do I raise my own bet?Well, not to confuse anyone here, but if you just call the flop raise and check the turn do you think a LAG checks behind? For someone looking to maximize value from a LAG, you do a pretty poor job of it by showing agression on the flop.Why not three-bet the river while you're here?All of these make *more* sense than raising the flop here.

[Absolute 0]

You are completely correct sir.I discount the fact that this guy probably's isnt looking at his cards and just assume he has two pair or a better kicker because he raised me.Even in limit poker, reads do matter.And it does make me happy.It is a bit of a moot point, but did you see what he had and how he played it?You gonna get away from top pair with a solid kicker vs. this guy?

[Absolute 0]

Not really. I show aggression on the flop because I would be happy taking it right there, and I get an extra bet in.I realize I should probably not get ahead of myself even if he is a LAG, and I decide to lead/call a raise on the turn and river.it makes sense to mesorry it doesnt to you

[Smasharoo 0]

You gonna get away from top pair with a solid kicker vs. this guy?No, but I'm not going spew chips on the flop when I need to be right about having the best hand not half the time, but 75% of the time.

[Smasharoo 0]

Not really.Really.Explain to me why they're not better plays than raising the flop.You know what, whatever, you're right.Raising the flop is great here. What the hell do I know.Good luck.

[Absolute 0]

Sarcasm is poor argument technique.If you want to explain something, do it properly, I am not getting defensive here.I said I thought you were correct at points, rather than"**** it, you are right, whatever, I know nothing."to me it sounds more like..."I'm just happen to be the most popular guy on the forum for no good reason"and that would be a silly thing to say.all im saying is, theres no reason to get dramatic.if im wrong, im wrong.im still learning here.i consider myself only slightly above average, and playing a LAG in a short-handed game brings out a lot of leaks in average players, do you not agree?

[Smasharoo 0]

all im saying is, theres no reason to get dramatic. I'm not getting dramatic, I'm deciding not to waste my time with someone who's convinced this is the right play.Ok. Continue to make it again and again and you should make money from doing so.Good luck.

[Absolute 0]

Ha.you aren't wasting your time as long as you get the last word rightalso i never said my play was correct, that's why i posted it.i just told you my rational behind making the play, isn't that the whole point of a strategy sectionyour advice was helpful, you just didnt have to act like a child giving it.but i do appreciate it

[Smasharoo 0]

also i never said my play was correctOf course you did. Here for instance:I was getting value on the flop, knowing I was ahead and he would raise me anyway.Here also:I discount the fact that this guy probably's isnt looking at his cards and just assume he has two pair or a better kicker because he raised me.Even in limit poker, reads do matter.And it does make me happy. This isn't a hand you want to learn anything from, it's a hand where you want to say "Look at this!"Again, whatever. You're right, continue to make this same play against the same type of player and you should do fine long term clearly. There's little room for doubt it would appear.Main point being, I'm not going to argue with someone who's convinced himself he made the right play because it's hand and he happened to win the hand.Doesn't matter to me how you play it next time.

[Absolute 0]

I don't think picking up 11.25 BB in a micro game is worth flashing it around.and when i explained that i didnt think he was even looking at his cards, that was just a literary ploy, as if to say "i dont think he cared what he was holding"all this was from the way i had seen him play.never once did i say i think i made the absolute correct move...i just explained why i did it.i said "it made sense to me"you are taking what i said out of context,that or you are assuming that you can interpret how i meant for them to be heard in whichever way you choose.have a ball.i got class.thanks for the chat.

[Smasharoo 0]

you aren't wasting your time as long as you get the last word right

QED.Have fun at class.

[Absolute 0]

quite easily done?

[Smasharoo 0]

quod erat demonstrandumWhat do they teach you kids in school these days??

[Absolute 0]

i know a little latinthe fact demonstrated?loose translation?the fact that has been demonstrated?**** i dont know

[Smasharoo 0]

It has been demonstrated.Commonly put at the ends of mathmatical or logical proofs to indicate they've been proven.For example, if all cars are blue and all fords are cars, then all fords are blue, QED.I find it fun to say to people who don't argue well when you make a particularly good point, thusly:QED, bitch.