Qjo Top Two. 1/2 Live

[Dubey 1,035]

some info might be incorrect with regards to exact number of limpers as I am doing this from memory.Passive table, 3 limpers, Hero limps in LP with Q J , button limps, both blinds complete.Flop Q J 9 EP bets 15, Villain calls 15, hero raises to 50, button calls all-in for 45, folds to EP who folds, Villain re-raises to 100.Villain had only been at the table for a round and a half, but he hadn't played a hand yet. How easy is this to fold?oh, Hero had $120 or so left after the $50 raise, Villain has $30 behind after the $100 raise.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

some info might be incorrect with regards to exact number of limpers as I am doing this from memory.Passive table, 3 limpers, Hero limps in LP with Q J , button limps, both blinds complete.Flop Q J 9 EP bets 15, Villain calls 15, hero raises to 50, button calls all-in for 45, folds to EP who folds, Villain re-raises to 100.Villain had only been at the table for a round and a half, but he hadn't played a hand yet. How easy is this to fold?oh, Hero had $120 or so left after the $50 raise, Villain has $30 behind after the $100 raise.

So villian Min-raises you? ANd has 30 left? I think you're priced in, but with one already All-In, and another re-raising... I can't argue against a fold.

[David_Nicoson 1]

some info might be incorrect with regards to exact number of limpers as I am doing this from memory.Passive table, 3 limpers, Hero limps in LP with Q J , button limps, both blinds complete.Flop Q J 9 EP bets 15, Villain calls 15, hero raises to 50, button calls all-in for 45, folds to EP who folds, Villain re-raises to 100.Villain had only been at the table for a round and a half, but he hadn't played a hand yet. How easy is this to fold?oh, Hero had $120 or so left after the $50 raise, Villain has $30 behind after the $100 raise.

There's another $30 left to play? That's not an easy fold at all. Assuming the $30 is going in, then before our call:Pot = 14 + 15+ 50 + 45 + 100 + 30 = 254We need to call a total of $80 to see the river, so our pot odds are:254:80 = 3.2:1We're ****ed if we're up against JJ or QQ. You described our opponents as passive, not dead, so I think that's pretty unlikely. So neglecting those cases, we can still win by hitting a full house even if we are behind. And I do think we're ahead occasionally. The odds against our 4 outs coming through on the turn or river are 5:1. That's worse than 3.2:1, so we would have to fold if we knew we were behind. How often? I find that piece of math is easier to do with percentages.The total pot after we're all-in is 254+80=334. When we're behind to a hand like a straight, we win 16.5% of the time. Our equity is $334 x 0.165 = $55. We spent $80 for this equity, so we lose $25 when we're behind to the villain.Supposing we're ahead of the villain but the all-in player has us beat, our equity in the main pot is still about 16.5%. I worked out a spreadsheet, hoping to come to a definitive opinion. And I have: the spreadsheet was way more trouble than in was worth.Using some wild-*** guesses, I figure we lose $1.66 by calling here. If we're ahead more often than 25% of the time, we can make money.

[Dubey 1,035]

There's another $30 left to play? That's not an easy fold at all. Assuming the $30 is going in, then before our call:Pot = 14 + 15+ 50 + 45 + 100 + 30 = 254We need to call a total of $80 to see the river, so our pot odds are:254:80 = 3.2:1We're ****ed if we're up against JJ or QQ. You described our opponents as passive, not dead, so I think that's pretty unlikely. So neglecting those cases, we can still win by hitting a full house even if we are behind. And I do think we're ahead occasionally. The odds against our 4 outs coming through on the turn or river are 5:1. That's worse than 3.2:1, so we would have to fold if we knew we were behind. How often? I find that piece of math is easier to do with percentages.The total pot after we're all-in is 254+80=334. When we're behind to a hand like a straight, we win 16.5% of the time. Our equity is $334 x 0.165 = $55. We spent $80 for this equity, so we lose $25 when we're behind to the villain.Supposing we're ahead of the villain but the all-in player has us beat, our equity in the main pot is still about 16.5%. I worked out a spreadsheet, hoping to come to a definitive opinion. And I have: the spreadsheet was way more trouble than in was worth.Using some wild-*** guesses, I figure we lose $1.66 by calling here. If we're ahead more often than 25% of the time, we can make money.

Not to disregard all of your hard work, as your insight is greatly appreciated, btu I don't think we are ahead 25% of the time here.Our villain called a bet, then, mini raised me back into a dry side pot. Since he's been folding a lot, I have to give him credit for at least an ounce of poker knowledge, and anyone who has even a limited understanding of the game should realize that the mini-raise in this situation accomplishes nothing against any hand that beats him. Therefore, I have to give him credit for a hand that he definitely wants action on. The only hand that wants action, and that I beat, is Q9, and I'd be shocked to see him turn over Q9 in this spot.Plus, leaving himself only $30 behind indicates MASSIVE strength imo, I'd be much more inclined to call if he'd just pushed it all-in, then I could possibly put him on some sort of straight and flush draw.

[fckthis 0]

Not to disregard all of your hard work, as your insight is greatly appreciated, btu I don't think we are ahead 25% of the time here.Our villain called a bet, then, mini raised me back into a dry side pot. Since he's been folding a lot, I have to give him credit for at least an ounce of poker knowledge, and anyone who has even a limited understanding of the game should realize that the mini-raise in this situation accomplishes nothing against any hand that beats him. Therefore, I have to give him credit for a hand that he definitely wants action on. The only hand that wants action, and that I beat, is Q9, and I'd be shocked to see him turn over Q9 in this spot.Plus, leaving himself only $30 behind indicates MASSIVE strength imo, I'd be much more inclined to call if he'd just pushed it all-in, then I could possibly put him on some sort of straight and flush draw.

Okay, if you had this figured out, whyd you post it?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Not to disregard all of your hard work, as your insight is greatly appreciated, btu I don't think we are ahead 25% of the time here.Our villain called a bet, then, mini raised me back into a dry side pot. Since he's been folding a lot, I have to give him credit for at least an ounce of poker knowledge, and anyone who has even a limited understanding of the game should realize that the mini-raise in this situation accomplishes nothing against any hand that beats him. Therefore, I have to give him credit for a hand that he definitely wants action on. The only hand that wants action, and that I beat, is Q9, and I'd be shocked to see him turn over Q9 in this spot.Plus, leaving himself only $30 behind indicates MASSIVE strength imo, I'd be much more inclined to call if he'd just pushed it all-in, then I could possibly put him on some sort of straight and flush draw.

I consider his raise equivalent to an all-in. Since he's out of position, he can't expect to check a bricked turn and get a free card. I don't think we can totally discount a nice draw here like A T or A 9 . He'd be happy to have the third player in, which explains his flat call of the initial bet.

[crankin 0]

Barring a hand like KT of diamonds, I don't understand villain's play here, especially if you want to give him credit for (being a smart player with) a straight. There are two players left to act (plus the blinds). By just calling, he is giving flush draws a chance to beat him cheaply. I would really have expected a smart player with a straight to have raised instead of called. A set (likely of 9's) is another possibility, but, again, I'd expect the set to raise any flush or straight draws out. Other than KT of diamonds, I just don't know what hand would call/re-raise in this spot. If you're going to give him credit for this hand, I guess you could fold (fortunately, you'd still get to see his hand, for use in the future). I just don't know if I could give him that much credit, so I'd probably call. At least, if you do call, you're (likely) not drawing dead.

[Dubey 1,035]

Okay, if you had this figured out, whyd you post it?

I had an opinion on the hand, I was looking for others. Thats what this forum is about, right?