Checkup On Easy Folds

[Zach6668 513]

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG+1 ($176.15)MP1 ($156.60)MP2 ($121.20)CO ($63.50)Button ($99.95)SB ($158.55)BB ($165)Hero ($103.70)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q , K . Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, MP2 calls $3.50, CO calls $3.50, 3 folds.Flop: ($12) 5 , K , 3 (3 players)Hero bets $8, MP2 calls $8, CO folds.Turn: ($28) 2 (2 players)Hero bets $16, MP2 raises to $74.65, Hero folds.Final Pot: $118.65Villain is 44/2/1.53 after 64 hands.

[telefonlur 0]

Yes, pretty standard in my oppinion.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Check the turn.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Sometimes I just limp with KQ UTG or UTG+1 and re-evaluate if it gets raised. Full-table, of course.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Sometimes I just limp with KQ UTG or UTG+1 and re-evaluate if it gets raised. Full-table, of course.

Don't play KQ UTG or UTG+1 in full ring.

[Scott3705 0]

Sometimes I just limp with KQ UTG or UTG+1 and re-evaluate if it gets raised. Full-table, of course.

I'll limp KQs at a passive preflop full table and dump it at an aggressive table. I'd rarely ever come in for a raise.Foldings fine here. He has to respect some sort of hand if he thinks at all. Only concern is he's got real donkish stacks and donks delay bluff some times. Not worth finding out here tho.

[Zach6668 513]

Check the turn.

Really?He doesn't have a weaker king a lot here?*****Also, you guys want me to fold KQs preflop?! Maybe it's the LHE in me, but I almost never fold a suited broadway, first in.

[crankin 0]

He doesn't have a weaker king a lot here?

Sometimes, yes. A lot, no.

Also, you guys want me to fold KQs preflop?! Maybe it's the LHE in me, but I almost never fold a suited broadway, first in.

Yeah, but in Limit, if you're dominated, you don't end up losing all that much. In No Limit, you can lose a *lot* in a dominated situation. I agree with Scott's opinion on limping with KQ in EP.

[Naismith 0]

In No Limit, you can lose a *lot* in a dominated situation.

That's generally how I like to play it...raise/call raise and then pay off AK on a K-high flop. I have one huge score with KQ...http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=32998&hl=...and then a bunch of awesome other pots where I've given all of that back and then some. In close, KQ, much like Brett Favre, sucks.

[Zach6668 513]

I fold KQo a lot in EP, but KQs, I'm almost always raising... I'll take a look at some PT stats and see what's up there, but I'll start limping it more maybe.- Zach

[Actuary 3]

I would think in PL you would be less inclined to play from EP.Hands like KQs when you have the lead can be played for big semi bluffs sometimes on flop and PL kills that chance.just guessing

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I would think in PL you would be more inclined to play from EP.Hands like KQs when you have the lead can be played for big semi bluffs sometimes on flop and PL kills that chance.just guessing

F'd Your P.Honestly? It's really just not profitable to play KQs UTG or UTG+1. You invite suited aces, hands like K9s, Q9s, K8s, KTs, QTs, QJs to come along so that even if you hit TP you could be drawing thin to two pair. Suited aces(including our suit) are very likely to come along for cheap, meaning even if we flop a flush draw it's not always going to be good. That, and, it's just a plain ol' bad idea to set yourself up to play a marginal hand OOP.

[Actuary 3]

F'd Your P.

I was not saying to play KQs from EP, in as much as I was saying playing OOP in PL is tougher than in NL because you lose the fold equity of semi-bluffing. Pos is more important in PL, no? And hands like KQs do flop decent semi bluff boards. Is there any sweeter flop than ThJh3c when you hold KhQh ?and yeah paying off A high flushes blows; but my math tells me it's not common although my PT may disagree.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I was not saying to play KQs from EP, in as much as I was saying playing OOP in PL is tougher than in NL because you lose the fold equity of semi-bluffing.

I would be more apt to play it in PLHE from EP for the simple fact that I can control pot sized and limit my losses with a marginal hand. Also, more players tend to see the flop in PLHE and this hand plays better in multi-way pots than it does heads up/3 way, IMO.

Pos is more important in PL, no? And hands like KQs do flop decent semi bluff boards. Is there any sweeter flop than ThJh3c when you hold KhQh ?

Most peopel will tell you position is paramount in PLHE, but, I've found most players are so bad at understanding the game that they're more easily exploited. Obviously there's not a sweeter flop for KQh, but, that happens once every, ohh..well, you're the mathematician, you tell me.

and yeah paying off A high flushes blows; but my math tells me it's not common although my PT may disagree.

I didn't say it happened often--in fact, I'm sure it happens very rarely. But what most people fail to understand is that, when they begin to justify playing KQs from EP, then they slowly fall into the trap of playing QJs from EP and KJs from EP. It's more problematic from a practice stand point than it is from a theory standpoint.

[Actuary 3]

thank DDIDM.I wish I didn't hate losing money so much.I'm afraid I lack the heart to go with my brains for the game of NL (ring).

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

thank DDIDM.I wish I didn't hate losing money so much.I'm afraid I lack the heart to go with my brains for the game of NL (ring).

I'm confused by this..?

Really?He doesn't have a weaker king a lot here?

Sorry, I didn't answer this allready..Checking the turn gives us more options than leading. If we check and he bets, we can fold(give him credit for a big hand), call(try and get to shodown cheap with what is likely the best hand), or raise(get more value out of the hand when we're ahead and he's more committed).If he checks behind, it's not the end of the world, either.

[Actuary 3]

I'm confused by this..?

I'm too risk adverse to play NL Cash games for much profit.I"m trying to pump myself up to take the plung! (some day)

[Scott3705 0]

I'm too risk adverse to play NL Cash games for much profit.I"m trying to pump myself up to take the plung! (some day)

I don't have many hands booked at LHE, but Screech always said that NL had a ton less variance.

[Actuary 3]

I don't have many hands booked at LHE, but Screech always said that NL had a ton less variance.

yeah, but I never shove my stack in with 12 outs when I play Limit.

[Zach6668 513]

I don't have many hands booked at LHE, but Screech always said that NL had a ton less variance.

AINEC.WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less stressful too.

[Actuary 3]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less stressful too.

Really?Well, that's because you win!How bout those big calls/laydowns/bets you have to make?You know, If I learned to lay down hands, it would help.Do you find you can pretty much know your beat and not kid yourself into seeing a showdown when villain plays back ?Or in fact, do you make "pro calls" often ?in Limit it is agonzing to have 5 outters calling you down and raising the river over and over again. Even though you win 78% of the time post flop, your stomach gets it knots as you hold your breath waiting for the river raise.

[Zach6668 513]

Really?Well, that's because you win!How bout those big calls/laydowns/bets you have to make?You know, If I learned to lay down hands, it would help.Do you find you can pretty much know your beat and not kid yourself into seeing a showdown when villain plays back ?Or in fact, do you make "pro calls" often ?in Limit it is agonzing to have 5 outters calling you down and raising the river over and over again. Even though you win 78% of the time post flop, your stomach gets it knots as you hold your breath waiting for the river raise.

Dude. I BLOW at laying down hands. How do you think this thread started. I did lay it down, but I thought about it forever. He had A4s, clearly.I make a few good calls, I make a lot of really bad calls, which is why my last week was more breakeven/down than the first 2 weeks of NL.It's an adjustment from LHE where calling down is the norm. I actually think I've been doing too much of that lately.The reason it is less stressful though is just the fact that it's way less variant.I DETEST getting c/r'ed on the turn every single hand I played of SH LHE.Also, when you get sucked out on, you set the price for the villain, so it's easy to look... hey, he called with a 4 outer for a pot bet, I'm making a KILLING in the long run.. way more than the marginal bets you make in LHE.Villains are way more exploitable in NL as well.FWIW, I don't just win at NL. I've won at LHE as well, and it's just waaaaay more stressful, and maybe a more appropriate word is frustrating. I hardly ever get frustrated playing NL.Another thing is, if you wanted to, you could pretty much insure that when the money goes in like 90% of the time, that you are a huge favorite, which is nice as well.- Zach

[Actuary 3]

FWIW, I don't just win at NL. I've won at LHE as well- Zach

Dude,this is me.I know you kick butt in Limit, too.Just making money hand over fist at NL after a rough patch of SH LHE, I thought might be easing the stress :Dyou agree with:"NL takes more heart, LH takes a stronger stomach?"

[Zach6668 513]

Dude,this is me.I know you kick butt in Limit, too.Just making money hand over fist at NL after a rough patch of SH LHE, I thought might be easing the stress :Dyou agree with:"NL takes more heart, LH takes a stronger stomach?"

I don't know.LHE for sure takes more stomach.I haven't really been in one of those situations where I felt I needed heart in NL.I mean, every once in a while the adrenaline starts pumping during big hands, but it's nothing more than a huge limit pot.I dunno. It just feels as if you have more control in NL, ie "seems" to be less suckouts. I know my sample is smaller, but I do have 12,695 hands at NL, so it's just the way it feels to me anyways.I don't really think NL is that big of a jump. I used to be scared like you. I used to think it was terrifying. It really isn't, IMO.Personally, I find the decisions to be 1 million times easier.I just NINE tabled for 45 minutes on my laptop. I could NEVER EVER EVER do that at LHE. AND, I made like $200.- Zach

[Scott3705 0]

you agree with:"NL takes more heart, LH takes a stronger stomach?"

I think the NL "heart" just starts coming from booking more hands. pushing 12 outers on the flop becomes very standard after awhile and you just figure to reload if you lose.