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Is This Racist, Or Otherwise Unacceptable?


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#1 respec

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:04 AM

A black North American man, in his 20's, writes the following:

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I have to admit, I can be a racist sometimes, but not in the way you'd think. I get along better with most white people than I do black people. When I grew up, most all of my friends were white. A lot of the time, I think the “black man” (me lol) is the least successful race in history. That, and most black dudes can’t play ice hockey to save their lives. I dunno, I’ve always vibed better with white people than I have with black people.I like the culture, I love the humor, the music, etc. I’m not an “Uncle Tom” by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel comfortable around white people. I’ve attended a wedding before with 400+ people where I was THE minority. The only black dude there. It didn’t really seem weird to me either.
If it does seem racist, or just plain disturbing to you, why? Perhaps we're dealing with a tremendous double standard here?Would the above paragraph (sans the part about the "black man" being the writer or the writer being an "uncle Tom") be any more or less "racist" if the writer were white?Daniel played it real safe with this one, but was "racist" nonetheless. Unfortunately in our society today it is perfectly acceptable to deride white people (to wit: them being referred to as "evil" in the original), afterall, they are the majority. Conversely, it is 100% acceptable to praise other races for their "good" stereotypical traits while at the same time absolutely abhorrent to even mention that a negative stereotype exists.IMO all stereotypes are a bad thing and all generalizations made about entire races of people are equally "racist" and should be equally unacceptable. This is true regardless of the speaker's race and regardless of the race he is making generalizations about. Furthermore, it shouldn't even matter if the statements are positive or negative! Why is saying that Black people are great cooks any more or less racist than calling them lazy? Why is saying that you prefer the company of black people any more or less racist than saying you prefer the company of white people? Does the relative level of "racistness" change if the above things are said by a black or white person? It shouldn't. If total equality is truly a goal of society then we need to eliminate stereotypes and double standards, not feed into them.

#2 myenemy

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:38 AM

First off, you're trying to convince the wrong guy, I think Daniel is a supporter of racial or behaviorial profiling. So that would mean that he is, to an extent, a racist by your definition. I dont like that word though so I'll use a slightly softer word, biased.Second, biased is terribly blown out of proportion and you're goal,

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total equality is truly a goal of society
, is not very realistic or desired for that matter. I think a more reasonable goal is harmony. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be with people like you. After all you're on a poker website.Third, biased is inherent in every facet of life, why would you think that it wouldn't be when considering other people. You're walking down a street and along comes a man walking his dog who happens to be a pit bull but isn't growling or anything. Aren't you just a little concerned? Thats biased my friend. Its a fact that certain...tendencies are in fact...typical!! Considering certain tendencies, good or bad, when dealing with folks is NOT necessarily racist. All colors of people have good people and bad people. Learn to love the right ones and avoid the wrong ones. And don't worry about whether its racist.

#3 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:42 AM

I don't think it was racist; just honest. The only people that will be offended are a small group of blacks that can't ball and a small group of whites that can. If we worry about offending people all our lives, our own existence would be offensive to us.Also, true equality is impossible. If we as a society made earnings completely equal for all, and mandated that we all color ourselves purple, we would still not have equality...some would be physically superior to others, some mentally. And, some would be more successful in relationships, in love...how can you "equalize" that? It's why communism doesn't work.
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#4 mrdannyg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:53 AM

View PostDonkSlayer, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 11:42 AM, said:

I don't think it was racist; just honest. The only people that will be offended are a small group of blacks that can't ball and a small group of whites that can. If we worry about offending people all our lives, our own existence would be offensive to us.
i hope that was a joke.it was most certainly racist, though not necessarily hateful or malicious. DN probably would not admit to being racist, though his support of racial profiling is undeniably otherwise.Many of us are somewhat racist, either due to our background, bad experiences, or plain old prejudice. All you can do is try not to let it overly affect your life, and make efforts to not distinguish racially. Problems do occur when people try to overcompensate, like DN in this blog entry.
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#5 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:58 AM

View Postmrdannyg, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 12:53 PM, said:

i hope that was a joke.it was most certainly racist, though not necessarily hateful or malicious. DN probably would not admit to being racist, though his support of racial profiling is undeniably otherwise.Many of us are somewhat racist, either due to our background, bad experiences, or plain old prejudice. All you can do is try not to let it overly affect your life, and make efforts to not distinguish racially. Problems do occur when people try to overcompensate, like DN in this blog entry.
So your definition of racism is simply "differentiation of other characteristics due to one's race?" Damn, we're screwed. Not disagreeing with you, just don't like where that goes.I'll ask you the same question I asked Sluggo once: at what statistically-significant point is something not "racist" or a "stereotype", but true?
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#6 ThaKid

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:00 AM

I'm not gona get started on why this thread and every1 in it annoys me, all clueless fools. *Closes Thread*
CAN'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT OBAMA CAN YOU

#7 nutzbuster

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:43 AM

VIVA le DIFFERANCE!!!I have nothing against blacks.I own several. :D :D :club: :) :D (common, you know that was funny) :)



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#8 myenemy

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:04 AM

View PostDonkSlayer, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

at what statistically-significant point is something not "racist" or a "stereotype", but true?
This is an important question. Obviously one we should vote on in the World Council on Stereotypical Behavior.No SW.In light of the latest, Daniel's preference of black folks, the rich white losers at his golf club observation, I wonder if he is one of those guilty rich white people. Funnily enough, of all that people that should be 'guilty rich whities' I would think that making your wealth from gambling would not espouse that sentiment. Maybe it was a notion brought on from his childhood...At any rate, it's a little sad if it's true especially when children are raised in such a household. Hating your skin color is a tradegy no matter what color it is.

#9 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:07 AM

View Postmyenemy, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 2:04 PM, said:

This is an important question. Obviously one we should vote on in the World Council on Stereotypical Behavior.No SW.
That would actually be a great addition to the UN. Then we could tell if someone was being a racist, or really, black men outnumber white men 7-1 in the NBA.
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#10 dapokerbum

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:08 AM

I'm not racist I hate everyone equally...*drum hit*Okay Nutz tried so i had to throw one out there too :club:
There was madness in any direction, at any hour…You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning…. And that, I think, was the handle-that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting-on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave….So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark-that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

#11 Balloon guy

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:23 AM

View Postrespec, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 9:04 AM, said:

IMO all stereotypes are a bad thing and all generalizations made about entire races of people are equally "racist" and should be equally unacceptable. This is true regardless of the speaker's race and regardless of the race he is making generalizations about. Furthermore, it shouldn't even matter if the statements are positive or negative!
You're just saying that cause you're French, the French always miss the point.
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#12 mrdannyg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:28 AM

View PostDonkSlayer, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

So your definition of racism is simply "differentiation of other characteristics due to one's race?" Damn, we're screwed. Not disagreeing with you, just don't like where that goes.I'll ask you the same question I asked Sluggo once: at what statistically-significant point is something not "racist" or a "stereotype", but true?
I would add to the definition thusly:"differentiation of other characteristics due to one's race without reasonable causality.The key term is obviously then "reasonable."Something like arguing for racial profiling assumes that some races are more prone to committing crimes. This is not a characteristic of their race (arguably), and is therefore racist. Something like saying "blacks outnumber whites in the NBA 7:1, even though the ratio of youth basketball players is only 2:1" would imply there is something fundamental that might lead to actual differentiation of characteristics by race.

View PostThaKid, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 12:00 PM, said:

I'm not gona get started on why this thread and every1 in it annoys me, all clueless fools. *Closes Thread*
early nomination for WPOTY?
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#13 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:02 PM

View Postmrdannyg, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 3:28 PM, said:

I would add to the definition thusly:"differentiation of other characteristics due to one's race without reasonable causality.The key term is obviously then "reasonable."Something like arguing for racial profiling assumes that some races are more prone to committing crimes. This is not a characteristic of their race (arguably), and is therefore racist.
So if it was most recent terrorists are Muslims = Most muslims are Arab = therefore we have something fundamental or racist? I'm confused.
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#14 burgerman

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:05 PM

The paragraph is certainly defined by race, but I wouldn't necessarily call it racism. I, also, don't equate racial profiling for security purposes to be racism either.Thankfully, the color at poker that is most important is green. How many chips and how much money to you end with.Burgerman

#15 mrdannyg

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:07 PM

View PostDonkSlayer, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 3:02 PM, said:

So if it was most recent terrorists are Muslims = Most muslims are Arab = therefore we have something fundamental or racist? I'm confused.
well, i mean something fundamental in that it is related to their race, probably physically. for instance, blacks may be better runners or basketball players due to genetics.a statement like you made above is not necessarily racist, since it purports to follow causality. however, many would argue that your premises are racist, since "most recent terroristsd are Muslims" is extremely problematic for reasons not relevant to this discussion.I found DN's paragraph to be racist, because he makes an unnecessary differentiation by race and mentions stereotypes lacking in causality.
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#16 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:23 PM

View Postmrdannyg, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 4:07 PM, said:

well, i mean something fundamental in that it is related to their race, probably physically. for instance, blacks may be better runners or basketball players due to genetics.a statement like you made above is not necessarily racist, since it purports to follow causality. however, many would argue that your premises are racist, since "most recent terroristsd are Muslims" is extremely problematic for reasons not relevant to this discussion.I found DN's paragraph to be racist, because he makes an unnecessary differentiation by race and mentions stereotypes lacking in causality.
Fair enough. I love muslims, I have muslim friends...just kidding. I honestly believe there are statisitics, but they are problematic and I know why you want to avoid mass stereotyping and generality-making.Ever notice that when you break down academically our societal taboos, such as "racism", "discrimination", etc....they seem less "bad"? I wonder if it's because the words are used too often and too harshly, or that the connotation is just much worse than an academic term used to describe a way of reasoning that may be erroneous.
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#17 Sluggo

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

Of course it's racist.
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#18 myenemy

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:35 PM

View Postmrdannyg, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 4:07 PM, said:

a statement like you made above is not necessarily racist, since it purports to follow causality. however, many would argue that your premises are racist, since "most recent terroristsd are Muslims" is extremely problematic for reasons not relevant to this discussion.
It is the very statement of cause in which one has concluded a "sterotype" that is seen as racist. The cause comes under a microscope and so the round-robin of the blame game of racism begins. For instance, where you to say that 75% of the US prison population is gray then I must conclude that 75% of crimes are committed by gray folks. So my stereotype or biased would be based on cause, right? Of course here's where the issue become muddled, and leads to questions of why 75% are gray...PS. My figures are completely made up, I in fact, have no idea what percent of the US prison pop. is gray.

#19 DonkSlayer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:41 PM

View Postmyenemy, on Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 4:35 PM, said:

It is the very statement of cause in which one has concluded a "sterotype" that is seen as racist. The cause comes under a microscope and so the round-robin of the blame game of racism begins. For instance, where you to say that 75% of the US prison population is gray then I must conclude that 75% of crimes are committed by gray folks. So my stereotype or biased would be based on cause, right? Of course here's where the issue become muddled, and leads to questions of why 75% are gray...PS. My figures are completely made up, I in fact, have no idea what percent of the US prison pop. is gray.
Is that some sort of prison gang where you gotta perform oral to get in?
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#20 KidPokerKid

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 12:52 PM

Can someone just close this thread? The US alone has too much racist, cultural, religious whining. It showing up on a poker thread is even more ridiculous.




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