16 replies to this topic

[JaysonWeber]

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converterPreflop: Jayson is BB with [Jc], [Kd]. 2 folds, Jayson calls, MP2 calls.Flop: (6 SB) [Ts], [Jd], [Ac] (3 players)SB bets, Jayson calls, MP2 calls.Turn: (4.50 BB) [Ks] (3 players)SB checks, Jayson checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Jayson calls.River: (6.50 BB) [7s] (2 players)Jayson checks, MP2 bets, Jayson calls.Final Pot: 8.50 BBJust overall... how would you have played this hand, start to finish.

[NormanHaupt]

hmm..CAP IT!

[wrto4556]

Fold preflop.Fold on the flop.Fold on the turn.and/or fold on the river.All seem correct. :-)

[JaysonWeber]

KJ off.. I know I know I know... I was hoping this post wouldn't come up, but if its suited.. say spades... and I call pre-flop, same situation happens here... what would you have done?

[wrto4556]

suited is a profitable call.

[akishore]

i think the pre-flop call was fine. he was big blind, so he wasn't calling two cold, only one. calling with KJo to one bet isn't too bad, but you're right, if it wa suited, it would be better.anyway, the flop play was the worst. raise or fold. no call there. you have second pair top kicker with an inside straight draw. you only have one person to act behind you, you have to raise or fold.if you raise and MP2 cold calls, you're either up against an ace or pair+gutshot (probably), and if SB three-bets, you're either up against an ace or a made straight.i would probably fold because there's a strong redraw on the board and you also tie yourself to the pot if MP2 or SB has an ace, but regardless, calling is the worst play by far.aseem

[wrto4556]

KJo is a bad hand to call a raise preflop out of the blinds (both). You're likely dominated and don't have very many draws.

[Smasharoo]

i think the flop call was fineYou're wrong

[KDawgCometh]

wrto4556 said:

Fold preflop.Fold on the flop.Fold on the turn.and/or fold on the river.All seem correct.  :-)

[Emptyeye]

Yeah, I'd fold it on the flop most definitely.And agreed that KJo isn't that great a hand (I don't even like kq to be honest), but I can see the rationale behind a call from the blinds.

[wrto4556]

FOLD FROM THE BLIIIINDS!Seriously, fold KJo to a raise from any position...possibly with the exceptioin of a blind steal.

[akishore]

Smasharoo said:

i think the flop call was fineYou're wrong

er, meant pre-flop call was fine.still wrong?aseem

[wrto4556]

akishore said:

Smasharoo said:

i think the flop call was fineYou're wrong

er, meant pre-flop call was fine.still wrong?aseem

yea.

[Absolute]

akishore said:

i think the flop call was fine. he was big blind, so he 0wasn't calling two cold, only one. calling with KJo to one bet isn't too bad, but you're right, if it wa suited, it would be better.

I think the call on the flop is worse than the call PF.I have to say playing KJ off PF to any raise, much less cold, is a leak.And then to play it to two bets cold when you hit middle pair is a leak.I think the call on the turn is ok. MP2 might have a queen, but considering he limped PF, it very well could be a marginal ace. And even if he does have a Q, which you certainly can't put him on, you are still getting 5.5 to 1 on the call. Then the odds of you chopping or improving on the river are 6 to 1. I would call the turn.Question though, if you call the turn, do you have to lay down the river if you don't improve. You aren't quite getting enough pot odds to call the turn if you are thinking you need to improve to win, so it seems that if you call the turn (by the rational I explained) you would also be committed on the river.

[Smasharoo]

er, meant pre-flop call was fine.still wrong? I knew what you meant.Yes.Calling with KQ there is wrong. A lot of the time calling with AQ is wrong, too. Calling with KJ is pretty terrible the times you don't flop JJJ.

[akishore]

ok, i'll stop playing marginal hands like KJo from the blinds to a raise. thanks.vade, he didn't call two cold on the flop. read again.am i still right that the flop call was the worst? isn't that a definite raise or fold situation? i'd lean towards folding, but i think calling is the worst of those three options.i'm thinking of the one hand in SSHE in the introduction to post-flop play, where the bad player has Q7s or something and hits second pair on the flop, the pre-flop aggressor bets out, and he just calls.sklansky says that calling Q7s pre-flop was a bad mistake, but calling on the flop was the worse mistake--it's a raise or fold situation.aseem

[KramitDaToad]

akishore said:

am i still right that the flop call was the worst? isn't that a definite raise or fold situation? i'd lean towards folding, but i think calling is the worst of those three options.aseem

Ignoring the fact that we shouldn't be in this hand to begin with...A raise there is good as it will put the MP up against 2 bets, you have position on the aggressor - which may buy a free card on the turn if the MP mucks, we have a good number of outs and potentially the best hand.The down side is of course AK & KQ have us butt-f**cked until Xmas :shock: (which is why you don't call pre-flop in the first place - mmm domination)