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Home Run Hitters Vs. Small Ball Players


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#41 strappazon

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:54 AM

Sorry for the question but.....does it means that when you use the "small ball" theory you have to play more hands, which means playing loose ?I play at very low stake actually $0.02 on PS and at those blind pople will call you with anything os i'll rather wait for monster hands, or playable hands in late position.Or maybe i'm missing something..

#42 cheetaking

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:32 PM

View Poststrappazon, on Monday, March 30th, 2009, 9:54 AM, said:

Sorry for the question but.....does it means that when you use the "small ball" theory you have to play more hands, which means playing loose ?I play at very low stake actually $0.02 on PS and at those blind pople will call you with anything os i'll rather wait for monster hands, or playable hands in late position.Or maybe i'm missing something..
No, it is much less effective in micro-NL. Small-ball is better suited for games where everyone is playing tight/aggressive at least to some degree, because those players are easier to put on hands, and more likely to be paying attention to the hands you play, which is what makes small-ball effective. From personal experience, basic tight/aggressive is best for when a table is really loose, and then switching to small-ball is the way to go once the table tightens up and you've had time to study everyone's play.
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#43 drewlovesomaha

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 05:36 PM

View PostSelfMade, on Tuesday, January 23rd, 2007, 1:38 AM, said:

Is small ball primarily (or entirely) a tournament strategy? It seems to stress survival, which is irrelevant in cash games.
I have found from time to time, that I can incorporate some of the small ball philosphies into the mixed limit cash games I play. When I realize I am at table where very few players are folding preflop or even after the flop, I tend to call more liberally and raise less often. After the flop I feel very comfortable outplaying my opponents and sometimes feel I can get more value out of the volume of opponents, so when the only players who would fold are the ones I have drawing dead, I will many times call in spots I would almost always re-raise with otherwise. The other spot I have found this useful in is when I am consistently heads up with a maniac - to quote Layne Flack, "Why do the pulling when the donkey is doing the pushing?" I was also wondering if Daniel could comment on whether he is tweaking his own "small ball" tournament strategy. It seems to work well for getting him deep in any major deep stacked event, but to some degree he seems to be missing opportunities to accumulate a huge chip stack early on and then be able to steal pot after pot in the later stages. Also, I am a huge fan of mixed games and was wondering if Daniel thought there would ever be a Poker after Dark or High Stakes Poker type show where they played 6 or 8 different games?

#44 NeverLetItDie

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:10 PM

Early on I make it 3xs the BB. When the ante's kick in I move to 2.5-2.7x the BB. Yeah it gives good odds for the BB to come along, but with position in my advantage I'm fine with that. Only time I make it 3 times the BB is in a blind vs blind battle. I wanna try and make the stacks even more shallow to some what negate his positional advantage he'll have in the BB. Obviously you will have to have confidence in your own game to do that because playing out of position can be tough, and often times is a negative EV play.I think small ball is a great way to approach the game. You have to first understand that when you first try a new approach espically small ball odds are you will not succeed small ball is something that requires a lot of practice and effort of handling the failure you will first experience. If you play any amount of torunaments you should know this because the biggest thing about being a trny player is being able to handle the constant failure because its like 80 percent of the time failure maybe 20 percent of time ITM then 5 percent of the 20 percent maybe deep run.

#45 Hojediade

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 01:54 PM

Thank's Dan.In my view small ball hands are great if you know when to play them, even in tournaments, and could give you opportunities to win big pots.I don't mean to play them all the time. But you can bet an un-open pot in middle position from time to time, or call a raise in late ones, IMO.My own small ball hand is 64. I made great play with them even when you hit a str8 or a full, nobody will place you there.

#46 Hojediade

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 01:55 PM

Thank's Dan.In my view small ball hands are great if you know when to play them, even in tournaments, and could give you opportunities to win big pots.I don't mean to play them all the time. But you can bet an un-open pot in middle position from time to time, or call a raise in late ones, IMO.My own small ball hand is 64. I made great play with them when you hit a str8 or a full, nobody will place you there.

#47 SlapStick

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 03:24 AM

Does small ball work in online tournaments? I've heard a few of the sharks here laugh about using it.
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#48 fireball

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 11:24 AM

I'm glad I read this post because when you are starting out you feel more comfortable playing "small ball." I didn't think about being able to take the advantage away from the more experienced players in this way. Hopefully, my game will improve now while I'm still learning! Thanks!

#49 drewlovesomaha

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 07:52 PM

If you have been playing poker 4 awhile and are not using small ball you are just missing out, plain and simple. Online, I actually love to use it in non-rebuy PLO tourneys due to the fact antes are never introduced and you can get down to 18 or 20 times the big blind and still be ok. Structure does play an important role but even in the local charity poker rooms I sometimes play when in michigan (where the structure is atrocious) if you remain patient, small ball will allow you an extra opportunity to double your chips when your opponents are drawing dead. One of the most important aspects is to not call off significant portions of your stack early on. For some reason, even though I remain observant if I am not in the hand, the more pots I play with a particular player the more dead on my reads become later on when the pots are much larger. Ideally if you make some hands early on and grow your chips into a big stack small ball is even more effective as you can grow your stack almost risk free. I have even adapted a small ball strategy when playing blackjack, avoiding splitting 2s,3s,4,6s,7s and doubling on 9 - laugh if you want but in my last 20 sessions I have booked 15 wins and a 1400 profit having never bet more than 15 dollars a hand and quitting anytime I make 150 dollar profit. It isn't life changng money but I enjoy spending it!!! (Being able to quit with a profit is important as well) I still play an advanced basic strategy but avoid putting alot more money out there in marginal spots - i.e. splitting 2's against dealer's 3 - "the book" says to do it but it is a very marginal advantage based on thousands of hands - now of course I am doubling 11 against everything but a 10 or an Ace and doubling all my soft aces vs 4 5 or 6 but in trying to limit the swings I honestly feel like I have negated the house's 2nd biggest advantage (the 1st being that I can never break the house) but I would love to try my strategy out with PHil Ivey or Daniel's bankroll...............I think I could break a small casino inside a month.

#50 jaxup1985

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:36 AM

View Postdrewlovesomaha, on Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 7:52 PM, said:

If you have been playing poker 4 awhile and are not using small ball you are just missing out, plain and simple. Online, I actually love to use it in non-rebuy PLO tourneys due to the fact antes are never introduced and you can get down to 18 or 20 times the big blind and still be ok. Structure does play an important role but even in the local charity poker rooms I sometimes play when in michigan (where the structure is atrocious) if you remain patient, small ball will allow you an extra opportunity to double your chips when your opponents are drawing dead. One of the most important aspects is to not call off significant portions of your stack early on. For some reason, even though I remain observant if I am not in the hand, the more pots I play with a particular player the more dead on my reads become later on when the pots are much larger. Ideally if you make some hands early on and grow your chips into a big stack small ball is even more effective as you can grow your stack almost risk free. I have even adapted a small ball strategy when playing blackjack, avoiding splitting 2s,3s,4,6s,7s and doubling on 9 - laugh if you want but in my last 20 sessions I have booked 15 wins and a 1400 profit having never bet more than 15 dollars a hand and quitting anytime I make 150 dollar profit. It isn't life changng money but I enjoy spending it!!! (Being able to quit with a profit is important as well) I still play an advanced basic strategy but avoid putting alot more money out there in marginal spots - i.e. splitting 2's against dealer's 3 - "the book" says to do it but it is a very marginal advantage based on thousands of hands - now of course I am doubling 11 against everything but a 10 or an Ace and doubling all my soft aces vs 4 5 or 6 but in trying to limit the swings I honestly feel like I have negated the house's 2nd biggest advantage (the 1st being that I can never break the house) but I would love to try my strategy out with PHil Ivey or Daniel's bankroll...............I think I could break a small casino inside a month.
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#51 pocketrockets1

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:59 AM

View PostOmaha Hi/Lo, on Tuesday, January 23rd, 2007, 9:06 PM, said:

No. It can be used and is more useful in cash games than most tournaments because of the deeper stacks. It's not a survival tactic, it's a way to minimize the varience (luck if you will) of poker, which at some points will bite you. By seeing flops and playing poker (putting some one on a hand, representing a hand, etc.) you increase the skill aspect of poker to a high level and make it almost like a game of chess instead of bingo, where one would shove in and wait to see if the 5 cards (the board) help/hurt you, which is gambling and will lead a lot of unnecessary risks that will obviously result negatively a certain percentage of the time. Small ball is not easy to play if you, for lack of a better word, "suck" post flop. If you have a lot of post flop experience then small ball is the perfect way for you to play poker.
Very interesting. I think I see myself more as this style of player, but you have so few chips online than you are basically in all in mode from the start lol. Maybe I would be better off playing cash then.




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