Flopping Two Pair, But Flush And Striaght Draws

[Aerriza 0]

Alright well I'm on my second SNG of the night, the first I hit a bad beat and was out at 8th, and in the hand before this I was doing fairly well untill I was dealt [Ac Qc] and board came [As 10c 4c] I'm pushed all in [Jc 3d] and fall victim to runner runner striaght ><. Sorry to throw a bad beat story in ><, but I was a little on tilt this hand but I still wanted to see what others thoughtFull Tilt Poker Game #918386569: $1 + $0.25 Sit & Go (Turbo) (6170368), Table 1 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:49:15 ET - 2006/08/20BB: Aerriza (920)UTG: boz5333 (860)Seat 3: festImuch (1,390)Seat 5: rhc22 (3,915)Seat 7: jazzyjeff84 (1,320)Button: mv62 (3,415)Seat 9: JaxNJ (1,680)JaxNJ posts the small blind of 30Aerriza posts the big blind of 60The button is in seat #8*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Aerriza [5c Kd]boz5333 calls 60festImuch calls 60rhc22 foldsjazzyjeff84 calls 60mv62 calls 60JaxNJ calls 30Aerriza checks*** FLOP *** [Ks 5s Tc]JaxNJ checksAerriza bets 400boz5333 calls 400festImuch foldsjazzyjeff84 foldsmv62 raises to 800JaxNJ foldsAerriza...?I was hoping that 400 should push away any flush or striaght draws, I don't really have any reads becuase I've been on tilt, and that's my way of going on tilt, paying attention to only myself, and my own cards. I need to learn to stop playing games after I lose to a bad beat or I'ma be out alot of money =P.Ok I'm thinking push here, it dose scream a flush draw or a striaght draw, but if he had Q J AQ AJ then suited or unsuited I figured he would raise before the flop so I don't think I'm facing a straight and a flush draw in which case I'm not the favorite anymore, I'm really thinking Kx, or maybe two spades, also suited connectors raise about half the time, it really depends on the person, so in this case being alot more observant would have helped me alot.Also the min raise in these low money SNGs seems to mean he's to scared to devote a big chunk of his stack to the the pot, and so does a call (but I've been more careful with people that will just call, becuase sometimes they will call any bet, even though they are too scared to raise).

[mjd 0]

Well, let's think about possible ranges for the caller and the raiser.I suspect the caller is on a draw. Though a slow-played monster isn't out of the question. Though, I don't see why a monster wouldn't want to raise.The raiser could just have something like KQ, KJ. I'd worry a little about KT. Would he limp with TT preflop? Is he semi-bluffing QJ or a 4-flush? You only have 430 after your flop bet, right? And, the pot has 1960 in it after the raise.Do you have any information about either villain?Against default low-stakes villains, I think I have to put my last 430 in. I expect to see villains turn-over top pair and a draw respectively. Or maybe even worse.-M

[SCS 0]

If you're going to call, which you absolutely should, then you should go allin.

[copernicus 0]

Your overbet to chase out flush draws on the flop tied your hands for later streets. In SnGs, where nobody has deep stacks, strongly consider the minimum bet that prices out a 1 card draw even though its the flop. That will save chips to price out another 1 card draw on the turn. Its even better to give a free turn card to save chips to price out the river draw.Another play you may want to consider, especially if youve been paying attention and the table is weak/tight, is raising preflop. With that many limpers, the strongest hand is likely to be one of the first two, and they have to be concerned about raisers behind them, meanwhile the later players are probably in just for the odds. Youre pot committed in this hand, but my guess is you are up against a straight draw in one hand and a flush draw in the other, or a set in one of the two hands. With that many limpers a small pocket pair is definitely in the picture.If you feel you are a very strong small stack player and the table is weak, you can even fold this.

[Aerriza 0]

Your overbet to chase out flush draws on the flop tied your hands for later streets. In SnGs, where nobody has deep stacks, strongly consider the minimum bet that prices out a 1 card draw even though its the flop. That will save chips to price out another 1 card draw on the turn. Its even better to give a free turn card to save chips to price out the river draw.Another play you may want to consider, especially if youve been paying attention and the table is weak/tight, is raising preflop. With that many limpers, the strongest hand is likely to be one of the first two, and they have to be concerned about raisers behind them, meanwhile the later players are probably in just for the odds. Youre pot committed in this hand, but my guess is you are up against a straight draw in one hand and a flush draw in the other, or a set in one of the two hands. With that many limpers a small pocket pair is definitely in the picture.If you feel you are a very strong small stack player and the table is weak, you can even fold this.

Hmmmm the first part sounds about right. I think I would rather bet, I can't just give a free card, way to many possibilities, but maybe not so much that I'm commited to the hand. But also I doubt many of the people at the 1$ SNGs know what pot odds mean, does this still make it a better play then betting 400? Do pot odds work vice versa (IE if I always outprice it, but they always call, will it still always be better than pricing it right? It seems like it should since I will still have the better odds, but if it dosen't really make a diference I could save myself some money up against two drawing hands).Also raising pre-flop isn't really an option, especialy with this table. It has been alot looser than most SNGs and once most people limp in they consider thereself commited to see the flop =P.And my small stack playing is W E A K. I am horrible at it, so folding this isn't really an option, also this is turbo, unless I'm very if I folded this hand now I would pretty much be out, unless I get very lucky in teh next few hands.

[ChrisRichey 1]

In a $1 sng, this is definitely a push after the re-raise on the flop. Way too many hands are going to make that move in these things. If you get sucked out on, well that's poker, but I think you're in good shape after the flop.

[Actuary 3]

If you feel you are a very strong small stack player and the table is weak, you can even fold this.

man that advice suckson par with this:

Its even better to give a free turn card to save chips to price out the river draw.

[WowThats 0]

If your playing online nearly every hand may have a flush/straight possibilities this is something you have to get use too playing online (live play the cards do not fall like they do online). If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups. Many people will disagree with my last statement and even flame me but in the end they know its true.

[Actuary 3]

nonsense

fyi,we're all past that OnLine is Rigged and other bs.Most of us regulars have well over 100k hands played and databases and math skills to support the fact that the cards are not fixed.please go away.

[copernicus 0]

If your playing online nearly every hand may have a flush/straight possibilities this is something you have to get use too playing online (live play the cards do not fall like they do online). If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups. Many people will disagree with my last statement and even flame me but in the end they know its true.

Ahhhh...so youre one of those players who figured out how to beat a rigged game. Its about time one of you showed up to show us the way.We're watiing.

[Actuary 3]

Ahhhh...so youre one of those players who figured out how to beat a rigged game. Its about time one of you showed up to show us the way.We're watiing.

How could you skip my insightful critique of you!!

[WowThats 0]

All I'm saying is it is mathematically impossible for a small percentage of players to consistently win online every week, every month "That does not happen weekly or monthly in live play". FYI: I do not believe anywhere in my statement did I say/insinuate online poker is/was rigged...

[copernicus 0]

How could you skip my insightful critique of you!!

I responded in the other thread where you referenced this one."If your playing online nearly every hand may have a flush/straight possibilities this is something you have to get use too playing online (live play the cards do not fall like they do online)." If cards are "falling differently" online than live, what do you attribute it to other than it being rigged? "If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups. " a "bless winning account" sounds like rigging to me...favoring certain types of accounts at the expense of others. the usual theories are "let the newbies win", "punish people who withdraw", "big stack always wins a race on this site", "small stack always wins a race on this site" (I heard both of these at Stars within 2 minutes of each other).sorry, but If you werent implying that online is rigged then Id love to hear your alternative explanation for your statements.

[gobears 0]

If your playing online nearly every hand may have a flush/straight possibilities this is something you have to get use too playing online (live play the cards do not fall like they do online). If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups. Many people will disagree with my last statement and even flame me but in the end they know its true.

1. It's you're, not your - you did it multiple times so it got annoying2. "live play the cards do not fall like they do online" - Uh no, they fall exactly the same. Only difference is you see more hands per hour online.3. "If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups." - so what are you insinuating about players with a "bless winning account"? It seems like "rigged" but you said it's not..so what does this mean?4. And I hope that your advice about folding AA as the big stack against a bunch of short stacks in the other thread was a joke.

[copernicus 0]

1. It's you're, not your - you did it multiple times so it got annoying2. "live play the cards do not fall like they do online" - Uh no, they fall exactly the same. Only difference is you see more hands per hour online.3. "If your playing against the average player you are 50/50% to win, if your playing against a player with a "bless winning account" you will lose a very high percentage of those match ups." - so what are you insinuating about players with a "bless winning account"? It seems like "rigged" but you said it's not..so what does this mean?4. And I hope that your advice about folding AA as the big stack against a bunch of short stacks in the other thread was a joke.

I've concluded that his posts are meant to be humorous, and he succeeds at that quite well. We can forgive a missing " 're " now and then for the laugh value can't we?

[WowThats 0]

1. I really do not believe either of you have a lot of experience playing live for the simple reason you're rationalizing using the terminology "you see a lot more hands in online" I'm not trying to be sarcastic like you are. 2. Some people are going to win more than others, some people have more luck than others. 3. You have no understanding of tournament play nor did you comprehend my statement regarding folding AA... I'm not sure either of you would understand any explanation "sorry to be sarcastic".

[Aerriza 0]

fyi,we're all past that OnLine is Rigged and other bs.Most of us regulars have well over 100k hands played and databases and math skills to support the fact that the cards are not fixed.please go away.

Don't you understand here, this guy is a geniuos, everyone now has a 75%/75% chance of winning...We'll this thread is on it's way to hell so I'll just post what happened, yea one had a straight draw, the other had a flush draw, they both hit and I lost the side pot and the main pot (the side pot was virtualy meaningless being only 200 chips in a turbo match).We'll even against a straight draw and a flush draw if we are all all-in then I'm still a favorite, so with my low chip stack I might aswell get my money in right here.Thanks for the advice

[copernicus 0]

Don't you understand here, this guy is a geniuos, everyone now has a 75%/75% chance of winning...We'll this thread is on it's way to hell so I'll just post what happened, yea one had a straight draw, the other had a flush draw, they both hit and I lost the side pot and the main pot (the side pot was virtualy meaningless being only 200 chips in a turbo match).We'll even against a straight draw and a flush draw if we are all all-in then I'm still a favorite, so with my low chip stack I might aswell get my money in right here.Thanks for the advice

depending on the suits of the straight draw and whether its the nut flush draw you may or may not be >50% to win, but with two hands in and the dead money its defintiely +EV.