18 replies to this topic

[Scott31]

A friend that I'm teaching to play limit asked me to give him some situations where you could play the hands a little differently PF. I wrote down a few of these situations and wanted to see what you guys think. Most of these are pretty clear-cut for me, but if we all played the same, no one would make any money in the long term. Give me your plays and thoughts.1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)4. 42s SB (1 limper)5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)7. 77 UTG8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Scott31 said:

A friend that I'm teaching to play limit asked me to give him some situations where you could play the hands a little differently PF.  I wrote down a few of these situations and wanted to see what you guys think.   Most of these are pretty clear-cut for me, but if we all played the same, no one would make any money in the long term.  Give me your plays and thoughts.1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)4. 42s SB (1 limper)5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)7. 77 UTG8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)

Just my opinions... as always...1. Raise2. Call (limp)3. Cold-call the raise4. Fold (no odds, out of position, why bother)5. Fold (AQ doesn't fare well when two other people three bet into you)6. Fold (I think raising is too aggressive and calling is too loose, JMO)7. Call (limp), and call one raise if someone does raise.8. Call (You're at least going to be 5 way, and you have position for now)9. Call the raise, but fold if it were offsuit10. Re-raise (button's raising standards go WAY down... put the heat on)How'd I do?

[Random Fluke]

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)call2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)raise3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)reraise to see if you are dominated. (You didnt say what position put in the raise.)4. 42s SB (1 limper)call5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)easy fold6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)raise7. 77 UTGDepends on the table. Loose table call, tight table probably fold.8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)call9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)Call looking for 2 pair or better, Be aware good chance you are dominated and your top pair will likely be no good.10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)reraise

[wrto4556]

Scott31 said:

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)

Raise.

Scott31 said:

2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)

Fold. Everyone behind you has to call and not raise in order for it to be correct to limp.

Scott31 said:

3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)

Reraise. Try and get him heads up.

Scott31 said:

4. 42s SB (1 limper)

Complete.

Scott31 said:

5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)

Easy fold.

Scott31 said:

6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)

Raise.

Scott31 said:

7. 77 UTG

Limp.

Scott31 said:

8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)

This is a good one. I'm calling, but I'm not convinced folding is wrong.

Scott31 said:

9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)

One of the few times you cold call.

Scott31 said:

10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)

Reraise.

[Emptyeye]

Scott31 said:

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)4. 42s SB (1 limper)5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)7. 77 UTG8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)

Okay.1. Fold. KQo in EP really isn't that strong.2. Limp in. Potential huge value if you hit a set here.3. Call or 3-bet. I'll say 3-bet to isolate.4. Complete the blind, particularly if you're good enough to get away after only getting a marginal piece.5. Fold it. A three-bet likely means either a coinflip at best or you're dominated at worst.6. Raise it. AT is a raise-or-fold hand to me.7. Limp. See #2.8. Fold it. I don't like connectors in general in limit.9. Call and tread VERY carefully post-flop.10. Some would say 3-bet, I just call here.

[Scott31]

Quote

Just my opinions... as always...1. Raise2. Call (limp)3. Cold-call the raise4. Fold (no odds, out of position, why bother)5. Fold (AQ doesn't fare well when two other people three bet into you)6. Fold (I think raising is too aggressive and calling is too loose, JMO)7. Call (limp), and call one raise if someone does raise.8. Call (You're at least going to be 5 way, and you have position for now)9. Call the raise, but fold if it were offsuit10. Re-raise (button's raising standards go WAY down... put the heat on)How'd I do?

75% Not bad...lolWell, there isn't really a right and wrong answer for some of these. I like most of your decisions though, TJ. 1. KQo Early-If they were suited i raise, offsuit I limp....I hate playing this hand out of position. I roll my eyes just about every time I get it. 2. 22 depends on the mood...I like to know there's at least A limper in the pot before I put money in on this hand that's tough to play (well, not that tough, you fold it mostly on the flop)3. 10 10 cold call or reraise, depends on the raiser and whether or not I'm feeling frisky. If it's an aggressive raiser, I'll try to isolate him with a 3 bet.4. 42s SB Fold....some complete with any 2 suited cards, but I think you need some limpers to make it worth it.5. AQs 3 cold- Fold fold fold6. ATo MP2- So inbetween here for me. I'd limp7. 77 UTG -This is my cutoff hand for limping in early without any other limpers8. 78s CO -Call it. You got the right type of hand to take down this multiway pot.9. QKs SB -faced with a raise - ehh, call10. Reraise, I agree. Most small stakes players don't know their arse from a hole in the ground, but they know how to steal. And they often seem to place more importance on defending and stealing the blinds than say...making money. :-)

[TJ_Eckleburg]

In re-thinking it... I'm not too crazy about raising KQo in EP, either. I think I retract that in favor of a just-call. If you're at a tight table and get called you're probably behind, or maybe even dominated. For some reason... I think KQ is a much stronger hand in limit than it is in no-limit. I can't explain why, or even if that hypothesis has any merit to it at all. Maybe selective memory and a small sample size.As for the TT, I completely forgot about the isolation possibilities. I'm just used to playing low-limit online... and I find the best way to make value with non-premium pocket pairs is hitting sets... period. Those low limit players are just too dumb to appreciate isolates... and I think that makes it a somewhat unprofitable play at low limits.

[Scott31]

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 posts.....damn I must meet the quota of the forum and say the word 'Smash.' There, that's done. Number 4 is one that I just flat out disagree with most of the posts so far. i think this is a leak if you limp here. Yes, completing the SB with 2 suited cards is standard, but this really is a bad situation with only 3 way action out of position. Even if you make your flush, it's just about the worst flush you could have. And nothing sucks more than drawing to your flush, have it hit the river and have to pay off another raise to a higher flush. Unless you're feeling the 442 flop, I say fold.

[Absolute]

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded) Raise2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you) Easy fold with no players 3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet) Easy raise to eliminate any other calls 4. 42s SB (1 limper) fold5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet) Fold, you think someone is three-betting with A-J?6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you) call7. 77 UTG Call8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises) fold9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers) Eh, call with odds 10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises) Raise

[KDawgCometh]

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)Raise it up2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)fold3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)threebet to isolate4. 42s SB (1 limper)complete5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)fold. call if there is a coldcaller6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)raise, he says7. 77 UTGlimp8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)I'd actually call here. Most of the limpers will call so you are getting a good price if you hit the flop9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)call. the cold callers help this decision10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)threebet. this looks like a button steal

[Scott31]

Quote

As for the TT, I completely forgot about the isolation possibilities. I'm just used to playing low-limit online... and I find the best way to make value with non-premium pocket pairs is hitting sets... period. Those low limit players are just too dumb to appreciate isolates... and I think that makes it a somewhat unprofitable play at low limits.

Even low limit psychos fold 3 cold to them with marginal hands, which is what you want. If they call, so what....you know exactly (or have a pretty good idea) what cards you don't want to see. And now you're making them pay a lot to see a flop when you're most likely in the lead, which is a good situation.

[Absolute]

Emptyeye said:

2. Limp in. Potential huge value if you hit a set here.

Where is the value is everyone has folded?

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Even low limit psychos fold 3 cold to them with marginal handsUm... no they don't, lol. Not 3 hours ago did I have just aces in a 6-way capped preflop pot. Flop 9-8-4 rainbow... capped again. Turn a 3... river a 5, heavy action most everywhere. 34o called the cap preflop and the cap on the flop. I was up against KK, QQ, and QQ, ATs dropped on the flop... and 34o takes down the 40 BB pot. I was more than slightly miffed.

[Scott31]

Quote

and 34o takes down the 40 BB pot. I was more than slightly miffed.

A pretty rare situation there. It happens, but when facing 3 cold, most players get the point. Now the 34o guy was just probably playing in a mental institute on a laptop with rounded corners and a daisy sunshine desktop background. :-)

[Scott31]

Quote

8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises) fold

This is one a few guys have said fold, but I think they're missing out on some big pots by mucking this. 78s is an excellent multiway hand (one of the best, IMO) and is very capable of taking down those massive pots. You have a raiser and several limpers who are going to call, which means there's going to be some action and if you miss the flop completely, it's pretty easy to get away from. You should call this raise and root for more cold callers. If you're playing online, I recommend just chanting, 'CALL, CALL, CALL, CALL." The more the merrier with this hand. If you flop an open ender (which is ideal, short of flopping the nut straight) cram and ram it and try and get a pot equity edge.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

If you're playing online, I recommend just chanting, 'CALL, CALL, CALL, CALL."Thank God... I thought I was the only one who did this.

[wrto4556]

The people that said to limp with KQ and AT need to reevaluate.Raise KQo from any position.You got big cards, you want to thin the field as much as possible. You can argue that noone is going to fold, but you're wrong. And if everyone does call, you have enough equity to make raising +EV.Raise ATo from MP & LP.You have two big broadway cards. Raise to limit the field, for value, and for fold equity.And you should never cold call with TT if noone has called the original raisers bet. 3-bet to isolate, for value, and for fold equity.Aggression people, damn.

[wrto4556]

KDawgCometh said:

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)Raise it up2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)fold3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)threebet to isolate4. 42s SB (1 limper)complete5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)fold. call if there is a coldcaller6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)raise, he says7. 77 UTGlimp8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)I'd actually call here. Most of the limpers will call so you are getting a good price if you hit the flop9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)call. the cold callers help this decision10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)threebet. this looks like a button steal

This looks stunningly familiar.Smart man.

[KDawgCometh]

wrto4556 said:

KDawgCometh said:

1. QKo in EP2 (UTG folded)Raise it up2. 22 in MP2 (all folded to you)fold3. 10 10 MP2 (faced with a raise, no callers yet)threebet to isolate4. 42s SB (1 limper)complete5. AQs CO (Facing 3 cold...Raise, reraise, no cold callers yet)fold. call if there is a coldcaller6. ATo MP2 (all folded to you)raise, he says7. 77 UTGlimp8. 78s CO (4 people limp, 5th guy raises)I'd actually call here. Most of the limpers will call so you are getting a good price if you hit the flop9. QKs SB (MP1 raises, 2 cold callers)call. the cold callers help this decision10. AQo SB (folded to the button who raises)threebet. this looks like a button steal

This looks stunningly familiar.Smart man.

yeah, except I'm calling with the suited connectors. You know, they say great minds think alike :-)